Refusing to vaccinate your child

[Organic100]

For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

Well then it's lovely that you can eradicate a disease without herd immunity, like I said. So let's all stop bothering the parents who don't want to vaccinate.

Exotic - are you suggesting that I and all my sisters and all my friends did not have measles, mumps and, in my case a mild case of scarlet fever? Why would you suggest that?

(Haven't read whole thread)

I think children should have to be up to date with their vaccinations in order to be in mainstream school.

No point nonno - you can wipe out diseases without herd immunity apparently. So no need to fret.

People often comment that children don't tend to die of diseases such as mumps and measles. What about tiny new borns or people recovering from cancer treatments or suffering from immune deficiencies. Herd immunity protects these vulnerable people who may not be able to have vaccinations themselves. It's pretty selfish to decide your child is too healthy to need vaccinations.

Vaccination has pushed disease into groups where it is more dangerous. Children get a bit of temporary protection at a time when the disease would be least damaging. But newborns are no longer protected by mothers having had the disease, adolescent males are not protected when mumps is riskiest because they didn't have it as children, and so on. There's no honesty from the authorities in talking about vaccination. There's no such thing as informed consent. If I'm being asked to risk my children, I want to have full information about those risks. It's not available, so no thanks. Nobody cares about children who are damaged. Those children whose vulnerabilities were never recognised until the worst happened, and then they're just airily dismissed.

I was also born in the 1950s and I never heard of a case of smallpox, or diptheria in the UK.

Polio, yes, there were epidemics and it was one of the diseases which was much feared, although personally I only recall one with calipers, so I don't know how prevalent it actually was. Interestingly enough, it was a summer disease and the cold weather seemed to kill it off, as I recall.

No, crumbleweed- I am suggesting that you were not born in 1950s.

To what end?

"I was also born in 1950s and think that younger parents are just too complacent because they have not seen the diseases."

In that case you are simply wrong. I am a younger parent and I remember the diseases I mentioned.

Crumbled walnuts. You are oversimplifying, and treating all diseases as behaving the same.

Did you look at the Ro figures in that CDC report? For every one case of smallpox there will be something like 4-7 transmissions. For evey one case of measles there will be 12-18 transmissions.

Smallpox is easily identified early. Smallpox is not contagious during incubation, and requires close contact for transmission.

A far different prospect to other diseases (measles/WC) and one which was more likely to be able to be eradicated by surveillance and containment.

Seeing as this isn't possible with measles/polio/WC, mass vaccination is needed and herd immunity required.

Anti-vax positions like yours, damage everyone.

I didn't know a case of smallpox or diphtheria. My mother knew diphtheria and that was terrifying.

Why do you think that medical professionals aren't able to advise you Crumbled? Do you never believe your doctor? Why do you think a doctor would lie to you about vaccinations?

Of course you do, but not as you saw them as an older parent. My son is over 30yrs- he saw them, but not in the way that I did as a child.

There is no point having this discussion with crumbled walnuts. They constantly deny that vaccines have ever had a positive effect, and instead rely on woo and nonsense to try to scare vulnerable parents into not vaccinating thir children against damaging, potentially life threatening diseases.

Luckily in RL everyone I know with babies is getting them vaccinated. I only know one who turns into a great conspiracy theory, with doctors making money rather than doing their best for their patients.

What about tiny new borns or people recovering from cancer treatments or suffering from immune deficiencies.

By the same token, what about those people who are vaccinated, get the disease asymptomatically and then pass it on to the tiny newborns and immuno-deficient? Are they not just as selfish? Some people do seem to think that vaccination will stop them catching a disease and it's not necessarily so.

It's not me that's over-simplifying. My children have had dozens of vaccinations by the way; don't assume. The fact that I haven't vaccinated against all disease certainly does not damage everyone. If it did, there'd be no point in vaccination at all.

Smallpox is easily identified early. Smallpox is not contagious during incubation, and requires close contact for transmission. Awfully good reasons why smallpox will have waned in communities without vaccination. But if you want to credit vaccination with all of it, that's up to you.

Why don't all parents get their children's immunity checked every year? It's irresponsible not to do so surely. Why don't they get their immunity checked after vaccination? It's irresponsible not to do so, surely. I certainly don't think children who haven't had their anti-bodies checked should be allowed to be at school.

There is no point having this discussion with crumbled walnuts. They constantly deny that vaccines have ever had a positive effect, and instead rely on woo and nonsense to try to scare vulnerable parents into not vaccinating thir children against damaging, potentially life threatening diseases.

How dare you, and how lazy.

Quite apart from half of it being an outright lie.

As I'm sure you are aware,those were reasons the surveillance containment method worked. stop being obtuse.

The surveillance containment method relied on vaccinating the primary and secondary ring around the identified case.

Why do you think that medical professionals aren't able to advise you Crumbled? Do you never believe your doctor? Why do you think a doctor would lie to you about vaccinations?

I don't always believe my doctor, no. Why would anyone? Do you think doctors are always right, Bunbaker?

A doctor might lie because he's never been taught any different and honestly believes what he's saying. Or because health authorities have the health of the cohort or community at heart, and not the health of the individual.

Do you honestly think doctors are always right, Bunbaker? Always?

Boosiehs, no more responses from me: you've been unspeakably rude. I can only assume you ran out of arguments. If you haven't you can try to address my last about checking the anti-bodies of vaccinated children.

Given my BP is teetering on the edge for a v pregnan womanI'm going to have to hide this thread. It's beyond ridiculous that people deny the importance or effectiveness of something like the smallpox vaccine program.

Indeed crumbledwalnuts. I went to the travel clinic when I was going to India. I would be immune to polio I was told, because I had had the full course back in the 50s/60s. Yes, I had the full course, but no one ever checked that the vaccine had taken or that my immunity hadn't waned during the subsequent 30 odd years. No-one could really say whether I was immune or not.

If I went to India again and went outside the normal tourist areas, where polio is still around I am not at all sure that I would want to rely on that old course of polio vaccine.