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Apparently children who have had good nutrition would just 'shrug it off' if they contracted measles. Why don't they say that in the UK?

739 replies

bumbleymummy · 18/06/2013 09:16

Article is here discussing the impact that poor nutrition has on children in developing countries.

Considering that the majority of children in the UK have no problem with good nutrition (fruit shoots and Greggs aside Wink) why aren't parents being reassured rather than terrified into having their children vaccinated with images of coffins plastered over the promotional material?

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bumbleymummy · 28/06/2013 09:33

Wishi, they can't have it during pregnancy though. They'd have to wait until that baby was born.

Jo, no one is promoting whale.to as the source for reliable. Accurate information though. The NHS is most people's first point of call.

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LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 09:40

According to this news report from The Japanese Times , the country began using MMR vaccines in 1989. They stopped using them in 1993.

So you can't blame that on Andrew Wakefield, who is always trotted out in this country as being the cause of low takeup of MMR.

curlew · 28/06/2013 09:42

OK- I'm wondering whether a "declare an interest question" would be useful here. Because a there isn't much point in continuing a debate if both sides are so entrenched in their views that there is no room for movement. How about-
"Do you think that the virtual irradiation of polio worldwide is overwhelmingly down to vaccination?"

I do.

bumbleymummy · 28/06/2013 09:47

Curlew, why would you ask a question that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread? Hmm

My 'interest' is that I feel unnecessary scare tactics are being used to get MMR rates up.

Why are you still trying to make this into some kind of 'anti-vax' discussion?

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LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 09:49

Some of us have declared our stance - by all means vaccinate, but if there are therapies which might help with the disease, then why not say so?

Some people would like us to say we are all anti-vaccine, but we are not. Personally, I am cynical about the Government's advice, which I don't mind admitting. I have lived long enough to see HCPs do about turns on health care, and be adamant that the current stance is the one they always had.

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:10

Bumbly- so your only interest in this thread is one possibly ill judged infographic on one poster produced by one health authority?

JackNoneReacher · 28/06/2013 10:12

Have you thought about starting a new thread about polio and vaccination curlew?

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:16

No. That's not what it's about. It's about getting people to state their starting positions. I know there are people on this thread who would say "No" to the polio question.

LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 10:20

Curlew - if you read the thread you will see that people have stated their starting positions. You are out of luck if you want them to come out and state that they are anti-vax, because they are not.

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:21

Why on earth not?

LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 10:24

Why on earth what?

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:27

Why won't anti-vaxxers "come out"?

Beachcomber · 28/06/2013 10:28

A thread about polio could be very interesting. It is extremely important that the global goal of eradicating polio is achieved. Whether that goal is achievable or not, I don't know. Let's hope so because a population without naturally acquired polio immunity is extremely vulnerable to a resurgence of the disease. (The same question has to be posed for measles BTW.)

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/why-polio-just-became-a-global-health-crisis-and-a-global-governance-crisis/257761/

The resurgence of an old disease can be especially dangerous, as the world has learned before. In the 1950s and 1960s, the use of the insecticide DDT led to a reduction in the population of mosquitoes, which in turn decreased the number of deaths due to malaria. But the effects were temporary, and when the disease resurged, people had lost some of their natural immunity, and deaths spiked.

We've had similar warning signs with polio as well: the 2010 outbreak in the Congo, for example, had a 50 percent morbidity rate, WHO spokesperson Sona Bari told me, more than twice what is usually seen in unimmunized populations. "If we fail, we are not going to continue to have 50 kids paralysed each year, we're going to have hundreds of thousands," Aylward said.

www.nature.com/news/2011/110201/full/news.2011.63.html?s=news_rss

Complete eradication does not spell the end for polio. Once the wild virus is eliminated, the weakened living virus present in the oral vaccine will persist. These are called "vaccine derived polio viruses" or VDPVs, and in rare cases they have reverted back to virulence and caused outbreaks. Between 2005 and 2009, Nigeria witnessed 2922 cases of polio caused by VDPVs rather than the wild virus.

In the post-polio era, VDPVs will be the new target. Vaccinations would need to switch from the oral polio vaccine to the inactivated polio vaccine, which contains dead virus, according to Pallansch.

Sorry for the tangent - not too sure what polio has to do with the government's attitude to measles, vit A and MMR!

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:29

Will you answer my question, beachcomber?

LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 10:30

Why won't anti-vaxxers "come out"?

Could be that you are asking on the wrong thread. There are people who from past threads I know to be anti-vaccine, but I haven't seen any of their names here.

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:33

Interesting that people won't yes or no the polio question, though!

LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 10:39

As has already been said - start a new thread. This one is primarily about measles treatment and Vitamin A. The question of MMR arises as a result, and hence, single measles/rubella vaccines have also been discussed and whether Govt policy pertaining to them is sound.

Beachcomber · 28/06/2013 10:44

What, the one about polio?

Yes I do. As I think my above post made clear, non?

Yes I do think the 9.5 billion and counting dollars that have been spent on polio eradication have had an effect. Like I said above we are currently in a vulnerable position with regards to polio as a result of this. It has become extremely important that polio is eradicated - a resurgence could be catastrophic.

Now do I get an 'antivaxxxxxer' or a 'provaxxxxer' sticker for that?

Actually I am neither of those silly black and white polarising nonsensical useless sensationalist and pigeon holing terms. I am a realist. I think vaccination is a most excellent idea on paper but not at all straightforward when applied to living breathing individual human beings and the environment and ecosystem we share with bacteria and viruses.

Now, I will stop taking this thread off topic with talk of polio.

curlew · 28/06/2013 10:47

Ok.

But I do think that it's reasonable to make assumptions if people refuse Ito answer a simple yes/no question.

Right. Is there any evidence that vitamin A supplements have any impact on measles outcomes in children who are not deficient in the vitamin?

Does anyone know by how much the virus depletes the body's vitamin A reserves, and does it reduce them to a dangerous level?

LaVolcan · 28/06/2013 10:59

Read up thread curlew - I think those questions have already been answered.

curlew · 28/06/2013 11:04

They haven't, actually.

bumbleymummy · 28/06/2013 11:52

Why won't anti-vaxxers come out?

Maybe because there aren't any on this thread - as has been pointed out several times now. Hmm

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curlew · 28/06/2013 12:50

So would you care to answer the question, bumbly?

And my other two about measles and vitamin A?

bumbleymummy · 28/06/2013 13:04

About polio? Why don't you start another thread rather than trying to derail this one. It has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

As for Vit A, why do you think I'm in the position to answer either of those questions? I'm reading other posters' responses/links with interest. Nice to learn something new :)

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bumbleymummy · 28/06/2013 13:07

This says some interesting things.

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