Apparently children who have had good nutrition would just 'shrug it off' if they contracted measles. Why don't they say that in the UK?

[bumbleymummy]

Article is here discussing the impact that poor nutrition has on children in developing countries.

Considering that the majority of children in the UK have no problem with good nutrition (fruit shoots and Greggs aside ) why aren't parents being reassured rather than terrified into having their children vaccinated with images of coffins plastered over the promotional material?

Bumble, Why did you post an op about measles and malnutrition on a vaccine board?

Because I was posting it in relation to the vaccination leaflets in Wales that were using coffins. Have you read the OP and the rest of the thread Jo?

If only 5-10% of the population need the pre-school jab, how do you tell who they are?

Is there any evidence that the booster is harmful to a 3/4 year old?

If you believe that taking vitamin a doesn't negate the need for vaccination, why not just advise them to get the jabs?

So take home message is
Do have the MMR? I'm confused.
What's your line on MMR?

Merry, you'd have to test for immunity. Many people who are opting for single vaccines do this and some who have given the first MMR and don't want to give the second unnecessarily but you have to pay for it privately and it involves drawing blood. It's a shame there's not an easier way to test!

I presume the rest of your questions are directed at Walnut so I'll let her answer them.

Why are you looking for a take home line on MMR coorong? That's not what the thread is about.

In your opinion, bumble, does the person you quote say that all well-fed children in Wales would shrug off measles? If not, where's the connection with the coffin?

No, and if you'd read the thread you would know that. It's the fact that the likelihood of a healthy child dying from measles in a developed country is incredibly small so using coffins seems unnecessary and scaremongery. Why do I feel like I'm repeating myself? Oh yes, because I am. RTT!

You're ending up repeating yourself because your posts are contradictory, and so people keep asking you to clarify.

I ask you why you posted about an aid worker's quote on measles and nutrition. You say, it was connected to a coffin on a vaccination leaflet.

I ask you how said quote relates to said coffin. You say it doesn't.

Which is it to be? Is the quote related to the coffin? If so, how? Or, is it not related to the coffin? In which case why did you post it?

Incidentally, there's no need to be terrified by the coffin. It's just there to highlight the worst-case scenario for both well-fed and poorly-fed children.

Maybe you need to word your questions a bit better so that you get the answers you're looking for. There is nothing contradictory in my posts. The 'no' I stated above was in response to your first question "does the person you quote say that all well-fed children in Wales would shrug off measles"

The connection with the coffin is death - children dying from measles. Children suffering from malnutrition are more likely to die from measles. Well nourished children (even in developing countries) can 'shrug measles off' a lot easier than those who are malnourished. The conversation has moved on to vitamin A in particular because Vit A deficiency is linked to a higher rate of complications from measles.

Do you think the coffin was used as a scare tactic or not? Fear seems to be a stronger motivator so I think the intent was to scare people.

You agree that the person you quote does not say that all well-fed children in Wales would shrug off measles. In which case they don't contradict the idea that measels kills, and so don't contradict the use of a coffin to illustrate the idea that measles kills.

I agree the prospect of dying from measles is scaring. This is why I and the medical profession reccommend MMR. Do you?

Or are we only allowed to discuss Vitamin A on a thread about an MMR leaflet?

To my knowledge measles hasn't killed a child in England and Wales for 20 years plus, and that was a child who was already compromised in some other way. It didn't kill the man in Swansea, and they went very quiet when they found that he probably had been vaccinated, so it's debatable whether using a coffin is helpful.

'and that was a child who was already compromised in some other way.'

That makes it okay, then.

Jo, did you read the original link? It's not about Wales so no, she wasn't saying that all well nourished children in Wales would shrug it off. She was talking about how measles can becomes life threatening for fragile children with compromised immune systems brought about by poor nutrition. It's the fact that in developing countries they can see the difference between children who are genuinely at risk of complications and those who are likely to just 'shrug it off'. That difference is not made here in the UK even though the vast majority of children are going to fall into the latter category. Yet still, the risk of dying of measles is being used to scare parents into vaccinating.

We're not just discussing vitamin A, that has only come up in the last few pages. Why post on this thread if you haven't bothered to read most of it? Most of your questions/comments have been addressed already.

No expat, it doesn't make it ok but using the death of an immunocompromised child to highlight the risk of measles in healthy children is a bit misleading.

No, it doesn't make it OK, as we are both aware, so a child with some sort of compromised health needs extra vigilance. I think the last case was a traveller child, so someone already more towards the margins of society.

We have mostly been talking about healthy children. We might fall downstairs and break our necks, but we aren't running advertising campaigns to say 'take care on stairs' and issuing helpful little skull and crossbones stickers to stick to our newell posts.

An immuno-compromised child needs to be protected by herd immunity.

I didn't know there was a vaccine against newel posts.

So as I understand it, measles is lethal everywhere else in the world, and was lethal in the UK until recently. However, because there haven't been any deaths in healthy children in recent years, measles is no longer a lethal threat in the UK, and the use of a coffin to suggest otherwise is frightening.

On the other hand, there is no spatial correlation between MMR and autism. Nor is there any temporal correlation between MMR and onset of autism. Nor is autism more common in vaccinated children. Nor has measles vaccine virus been found in children with autism. So claiming MMR might give you autism is presumably a disgraceful, callous and disingenuous attempt to scare people out of getting vaccinated.

Who talked about MMR and autism? We were just saying why not advise people who catch measles to boost their vitamin A intake? There is evidence that it's beneficial. Yes, yes, Scott in the Antarctic got Vitamin A poisoning, but we are not talking about chopping up huskies livers and feeding them to measles sufferers.

PS: it's the treads and risers which trip you up. But yes, we could do with some stickers because my son fell downstairs a few weeks ago and gave himself some nasty cuts and bruises.

Well, if people aren't worried about the MMR/autism "link" why not just go to the booster?

I agree that it looks as if there should be some more research about the role of Vitamin A in protecting people from complications of measles- but nobody is suggesting, surely, that vitamin A will stop people getting measles?

Hmm, death from measles pretty much unheard of in last 20 years. It's almost as though the government had made some change to the vaccination programme in the last few decades and it was working...

When I was a child nobody wore safety belts, child seats were pretty much unheard of and children often travelled rolling around in the boot. I do not know a single child or adult who has ever been killed or even badly injiured in a car crash. Only a minute number of journeys involve an event that requires a safety belt. However, because we now all wear safety belts on all journeys, largely because of very scared public information films, lives are saved.

Scarey, not scared.

but nobody is suggesting, surely, that vitamin A will stop people getting measles?

I don't think anyone has, but they have been questioning why taking a supplement isn't promoted for those who do get measles.

If as you imply, the vaccination programme has avoided child deaths from measles for the past 20 years, then why put pictures of coffins on your leaflets? Perhaps they don't have as much faith as they would like us to have in their vaccinations?

Why are you talking about MMR/autism Jo?

Curlew, I believe it was Walnut who was highlighting the fact that the booster vaccine is unnecessary for 90/95% of people because they are already immune. I suppose it depends on how you feel about having unnecessary vaccines 'just in case'.

Merry, deaths from measles have been declining for years - before vaccines came in.

"Curlew, I believe it was Walnut who was highlighting the fact that the booster vaccine is unnecessary for 90/95% of people because they are already immune. I suppose it depends on how you feel about having unnecessary vaccines 'just in case'."

If you believe that the vaccine is as safe as any active medicine can be, why would you not have your child vaccinated to help protect those children who cannot be?

"I don't think anyone has, but they have been questioning why taking a supplement isn't promoted for those who do get measles."

I wonder why too. I suspect it's because the dose necessary to be effective is also big enough to be potentially dangerous to the "worried well" and to children who do not have a vitamin A deficiency ( that is, practically every child in the developed world.) Somebody on the thread said that vitamin a is given to people with measles in hospital.