The difference between being 'very unhappy' and depressed

[handlemecarefully]

I recently went to the docs with my dd's ear infection and at the end of the consultation, broke into tears and mentioned that I had been feeling very down and unhappy (I'm 28 wks pregnant and wondered if this was something to do with it). He referred me to the Community Psychiatric team and a CPDN came to visit me. Her assessment was that I am merely 'rather unhappy' rather than clinically depressed - so that's it then!

Frankly is there a fu**ing difference? Apparently the fact that I can still sleep at night, manage to get out of bed and go to work / look after dd and can motivate myself to leave the house means that I am okay. Has she not heard of a strong sense of responsibility - I would love to stay in bed, fester in my own misery and shut the world out....but I manage to keep it together and get on with it because I have things that I must do -like keep going for dd's sake...(btw I am not implicitly criticising people who have suffered from depression and secumbed to these symptoms - my own SIL had very serious depression and I witnessed it first hand and truly felt for her). Doesn't peoples' depression manifest itself in different ways...

Surely it can't be 'okay' that I feel continously down and find life a joyless experience at the moment? (which is not normal for me). I think I might benefit from ante depressants...but then what do I know!

Sorry this isn't meant to be a self pitying post - I just wondered what other peoples take on this might be? Any similar experiences etc?

Are there good reasons for you to be unhappy? Is there stuff in your life you can change to make yourself happier atm? I'm sorry you feel so down.

Hi HMC, a subject dear to my heart atm (see my strategies for avoiding depression thread). I don't know what the difference is but it's a very good question. Maybe it's that you can 'snap yourself out' of feeling very down and take steps to remedy the things that are upsetting you and as a result it will get better - with depression you can't necessarily. So maybe you are just very unhappy? One of my friends used to ask me to remind her that it WAS sometimes about her kitchen and NOT that she was depressed again! (she was having building work done so it really was the kitchen that was getting her down). No, it's not OK that life is joyless, really it isn't but I can't know whether this is due to external things or hormonal balance. Thinking of you and I'm sure you;ll get some good advice here.

Wickedwaterwitch,

I just spotted your thread after posting mine so I'll be reading through the tips and strategies and trying a self help approach.

Still have this sense though that I am not 'quite right' - as I am usually pretty stoical so its not typical for me to feel permanently low.

I hope you feel better soon!

Aloha - I guess reasons might include:

*feeling trapped by motherhood - in a job that I hate but don't particularly relish prospect of giving up and being SAHM...but then can't afford to retrain whilst taking no income and having to pay childcare costs
*a feeling that my dh and I are on different wavelengths and don't share the same values and outlook
*trepidation about how I will cope when number 2 comes along
*rather self indulgent sense of resentment that I have no 'me' time at all (i.e. either at work or looking after dd and there is nothing else)

• much like any other mum I guess!

HMC, also, do a search on rhubarb's name and mine - she was very down when pregnant and I did't have a great time either - there's a great long thread somewhere but no time to find it, sorry. Back later will try then.

Same same same

Job I hate but can't afford to give up. Not sure if I could handle being a SAHM with two kids. Already have the second one.

I had easy pregnancies but during the second pregnancy suffered from insomnia, nights tossing and turning. Stress I would imagine about work, coping with two, relationship. It has been tough with two,,went to doctor and got subscribed anti depressants and that kick started my DP to contribute more so didn't take them. For me getting more support and appreciation from him was the key to making me feel better, sounds like it could be the same with you. Men sometimes need things spelling out for them.

I try and remember it does get easier, no one told me that it would be easy at the start and that me and DP are in this for the longterm.

message withdrawn

handlemecarefully, I've heard good things about Dorothy Rowe on this subject (sadness/depression) and I'm not saying reading a book will be a magic wand but there was an interview in the Observer with a bloke who says she changed his life. (I met her once, she came on one of my radio programmes to talk about depression & she was v good)

I think you are right that different people experience depression differently. One person might just collapse in the GP surgery in floods of tears, while another person keeps going and looks on the surface to cope. I think you know yourself if you are depressed and not just a little unhappy. I think typical for depression is also feelings of anxiety, hopelessness and some people get panic attacks. I think you should go back to your GP if you think you could do with some anti-depressant. Only YOU really know how how you feel!

(she's a psychologist)
this might be worth reading

I didn't read the whole article, but I was quite suprised about what she was saying about newborn babies and depressed mums. I have heard the contrary and also believe the contrary. I think most mums suffering from PND suffer terribly themselves, but their newborn is not affected because they still manage to care for their baby. I had PND after DD myself and I although I felt like I was the world's worst mum at the time (typical sign of PND), my DD was not affected at all. I was the perfect mum to her, just suffered terribly myself. I think it is really important for women with PND to be educated and assured that their horrible condition will not affect their babies. Obviously PND and other forms of depression manifests itself in different ways. Some women might neglect their babyes emotionally or physically, but I don't think this is the norm.

Hi handlemecarefully

sounds to me like at least part of the problem is that you're stuck in a rut - I've been there. I think it's key that you fence off some me time even if it's only a few hours a week - can you drop a few working hours and put your child in nursery. I also recently started using jars instead of doing the full Annabel Karmel thang late into the evening so I get at least a little time in the evenings to do things which keep me sane. I think me time is crucial not self-indulgent and having even a small amount does help to keep at bay the trapped by motherhood feeling.

Also what about hatching a long term plan for how to improve your career & finances and taking some small practical steps right now - starting a savings plan, information gathering on jobs that might interest you - the sense of making (very slow) progress towards a long term goal is the only thing that keeps me going through the darkest days. One day your kids will be at school and you'll be able to pursue a career/job change properly.

I think you just have to keep going, think long term and make a few small changes now that will give you a sense of progression no matter how small. It just about works for me. Not sure what to advise about feeling out of touch with dh or how you will cope with another. Best Wishes.

Interesting article Bundle - and after having read it I might have to grudgingly admit that the CPDN may be right...that I am merely very unhappy, since I capable of 'being comforted' and apparently if you are genuinely depressed you are not capable of being comforted.

Am really going to think about the points that the author made to try and fix this...!

There's some really good practical advice coming out here and in WWW's thread. Thanks everyone - I'm really appreciative.

good for you handlemecarefully, I know what you mean about 'me' time - I'm going out for the first time in AGES - dh was delighted because he says I'm not so grumpy when I get a life...

ooooh - it's just started snowing (central London!)

hmc - everyone else has given great advice. I've only been seriously (probably clinically but I never went for help rather foolishly) depressed once, but regularly have times when I'm "rather unhappy" by your CPDN's definition.

I think the "rather unhappy" stage can often be the slippery slope into proper depression (at least that's what I noticed in retrospect when trying to work out what went wrong that time). The "rather unhappy" stage is the point where you still have some control and can force yourself to do something about it.

I like to think of it as your body giving you a rather strong hint that you've been neglecting yourself and that it's time to be selfish for a little while...

Hormones being all over the place in pregnancy don't really help either, do they? I'm getting myself so worked up about nothing at the moment (23 weeks pregnant). All the more reason to take the time to look after yourself properly.

Hope you feel better soon.

I agree with GeorginaA and also it is sometimes difficult to judge how depressed you are. I am the type of person who wuld normally say to myself to pull myself together and deal with things. When I had PND, I constantly thought I was getting better, but now I can see what a mess I was for about 10 months. The depression was perhaps getting better as I got more sleep, but it was also evolving and changing, so difficult to judge if it got better or just different.......People who try to cope with depression on their own can end up making themselves very ill indeed

fairymum, my dh's mum had severe PND and it's definitely affected their relationship (I believe she effectively 'withdrew' for a bit - and his dad played a much bigger role than dads did then, back in the 60s so he's much closer to his dad) - she has a v different relationship with both her daughters (she didn't have PND after their births). v interesting stuff.

hi there, I had exactly the same experience with the CPDN with my first pregnancy, because I wasn't waking up at 4 every morning I was fine and it was 'just my hormones'. I felt worse and worse throughout that pregnancy and ended up lying on the bed, or worse under it hiding from dp, sobbing for hours because I didn't understand why I felt so s**t. Don't let yourself get to that point, go back to your GP. my partner and I nearly split up because of the way I was, nearly a year after the birth of ds, because I didn't ask for help (I didn't think anyone would help me because of the CPDN). I'm now 33 weeks pregnant and I'm feeling low again, can't stop crying, hate the dogs and I feel like my partner doesn't understand me at all, so you're not alone. If you want to email me please do

Bundle, yes I know that can happen, but I actually think that in most cases the babies are absolutely fine. I therefore wonder where the study referred in the article was taken from as I have always heard the opposite. I think it's really important, too, to assure mums with PND that they can still be great mums for their babies.

HMC, I've only just glanced at this thread but it's an issue dear to my heart - in fact I've just written an article on it. I think there is a very fine line between unhappiness and depression, and that it isn't 'okay' how you feel atm.

i agree fairymum, no point in scaremongering esp. amongst a group of women who need all the support they can get.

Motherinferior,

Would like to read your article - where can I find it?

It'll be in the April issue of Red, apparently (so out in March)

I worry about the effect of my current severe PND, not on my dd2 who is 8 weeks and blissfully unaware, but on my dd1 and ds, who are almost 4 and almost 2.
I think the point that people have made that you 'can be comforted' is a good one. For me at the moment, I can put on a brave face for, oh, several minutes at a time, but nothing, and I mean genuinely NOTHING makes me feel any different inside. I am still dragging myself through every day with the thought that one of the only things keeping me alive is that only I can bf dd2.
Must go, its just what she needs right now!

Hi Handlemecarefully
Ive just written something similar on www's thread but anyway here's a quick repeat.

My own view is that if you could take yourself away from your everyday hassles and have a day doing whatever you wanted and be happy then you're not 'depressed.' I remember being in the grips of PND and knowing that if someone told me that Id won the lottery there wouldnt have been a flicker - it wouldnt have meant a thing to me.
Nothing that i normally enjoyed would 'lift' me and I was trapped in my misery.

HOWEVER - just because you may not be clinically depressed doesnt mean that its ok for you to feel so unhappy. Read through www's thread and see if any of the tips there might help.

And if you find that things dont improve after trying the self help tips and you really feel that you need some extra tips go back to the doctor and tell them. Don't keep suffering.

Hope things look up soon.
Kizziex