*tamoxifen* 31- in the bus shelter with the cheap booze

[Gigondas]

Shiny new thread

You are clearly better at me with clippers as dh won't let me near him.

Re charities, agree with all that has Been said and going for a general charity better.

I am quite nifty with the clippers- it's quite good fun-though T won't let anyone near him with them,including proper hairdresser... my hairdresser said best way with clippers is to go both ways...

Must get the clippers out when I get home dh doesn't have much left on top so just a short back and sides...
Going out to get curry for tea once it opens, mmm.
On my phone so not good at replying to your messages. Hello to az bugger you have had to take this road, such a shock esp if you were feeling well before your op.
Have been negotiating with new boss and they are going to match my current salary. Feel quite pleased with myself as I could easily have said yes to taking the drop! Formal offer once refs are through then start mid Feb... Going to have to invest in new work clothes - I can get away with jeans most days in my current position! Actually side effect of bc is that I am less risk averse and more likely to 'go for it'

'evening all
AtoZ, welcome from me too! I'm two years post diagnosis of breast cancer now and had extensive chemo plus plenty of radiotherapy and a lumpectomy etc. I found chemo was doable (mostly because I'm quite mad so probably didn't notice that I was supposed to be having problems ). I even worked through mine (see, told you I was mad).
These lovely people propped me up. Now it's just six monthly checkups (eek) for another four years.
Good advice to stay away from Dr Google - unless you are a researcher and/or know all the terminology for the very latest research findings, you might as well be reading an ASDA till receipt.
Large hugs to HND
And for anyone else in need of one.
Never tried clippers. Dangerous enough with blunt ended scissors...
PS I'm alright after the exhausting couple of weeks, I think.

AtoZ It is indeed a bugger, sorry that you are here. I empathise with your mixed feelings about chemo, it is counter intuitive to choose to be poisoned but in the end after a lot of anger about the choice I faced I just felt I had to take every chance offered, though it improved my odds by a pathetic margin, given how sick it was going to make me it just wasn't good enough! I am 11 years on, who knows if it made the difference?

Gigs is right, I went through the treatment with a group of friends and we often likened it to pregnancy.

Lots of good tips below. I would just add that I had to be careful about what I eat before a treatment because my body would afterwards be repulsed by just the sight of that food , obviously assuming it was the culprit!! In the end it responded in the same way to the sight of the hospital as well. You can see it had a point. Anyway it was a bit annoying to find that I couldn't stand the sight of something that was previously a treat, it was a year before I could eat Asparagus again!

I also found it useful to look ahead and plan for the future, have things to look forward to . Both short term, I would plan treats for my "good week", and longer term for when I was healthy, things like standing on a mountain, my eldest starting secondary school etc. I also used them for visualisation at night to crowd out the bad 4am thoughts.

It is good to get the first chemo out of the way and know exactly how you react. They are good at reacting to how your body reacts, and whatever the side effect chances are one of us will have experienced it. I am your expert on low white blood cell counts and all related anxiety (which was clearly totally unfounded)

Hi to atoz but sorry you find yourself here. Everyone has given you great advice. I agree chemo is a bit like pregnancy - I had hyperemesis when pregnant and was VERY sick with chemo but onc tweaked my anti-sickness meds and gave me a syringe driver and whilst it certainly wasn't pleasant it was doable.

Welcome home gigs. Hope you had a good time in French France.

Good luck hnd for your op. Hope it all goes well. We will be thinking of you.

Hope everyone ok. Don't want to miss anyone out so waves to you all. otm wow 11 done, the end is in sight.

Welcome ATOZ.

Thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with me. I can see that pregnancy is a good analogy as everyone has their own unique experience.

Yes, the improved odds that chemo may deliver are tiny, so I agree it's very difficult to subject yourself to this harsh regime. But I also agree that I have to take that opportunity.

My big problem is looking beyond chemo. I don't want to sound gloomy but there's not a lot left of my 'old' life. Since my dx I no longer work (retired). The retirement I had planned with lot of travelling will not be possible (fitness and inability to get health insurance). I won't be able to get another job (too unwell and who'd employ me with my sickness record?). My house desperately needs renovating -something that I had planned to start when I retired (but don't know when I can schedule workmen etc because of my own treatment schedule).

I lost my darling elderly cat just before my operation and I'll never be able to have any more pets - which I find very, very difficult to deal with, as it's my pets that have always kept me going in the past. I burst into tears constantly and involuntarily, but there's no emotion behind the tears - they just happen and make me look stupid when I'm in a public place. I've tried ADs but they just make me feel ill. I can recognise that I'm starting to get very depressed. I think just too much has happened to me in a very short time and it's taking a lot of time to make sense of it all.

I'm worried that I'm just not dealing with this mentally as well as feeeling very damaged and vulnerable post-op.

That's quite a list of woes from me - sorry.

Hello A2Z, I didn't want to read and run but tis past my bedtime. I loiter around this thread though don't have cancer, nor have I had. Ignore me if I've got it wrong.

Just reading your last post makes me wonder if you are expecting too much too soon. You've jsut had very major surgery, aftera huge shock diagnosis (you say earlier it was unexpected as you din't have symptoms) - also you've had the 'change' of retiring, and your pet dying - alone they are unsettling life changes, but everything together is huge. Utterly massive in fact. And now you are facing chemo iminently. 'Dealing with it mentally' is a huge task and maybe you just have to go with the flow, which at times will be more like a 'crawl'. What I'm saying is maybe it's too soon for that, and meantimne oyu just need to live the new and unwanted life, and worry about mental stuff as and when. See how the chemo goes - a few cycles in and you will have a clearer idea how you feel and which days are good and bad. Maybe you will feel well enough in a few months to sort the house, or begin that ask. perhaps though ta the moment it's enough just to focus on getting well physically and tackling the chemo.

oops, i meant 'begin that'task'. I have a great fear of doing long posts that then get lost in the MN ether - if that happene d I often don't redo, and my words of wisdom are lost forever ... so i type fast and carelessly.

Just rereading your last post, and wonder if you KNOW you can't get travel insurance? Yes, maybe while you on chemo that would be hard, but you also say earlier they think the surgery has got rid of all the tumour, so once your chemo is behind you things will look different. I know you'd have only the one lung, but if you are otherwise well then you could possibly still travel and be insured. When you are ready, you might get advice frm some fo the cancer charities about insurance options. People do travel and get insurance after cancer. Others will know more than me on this.

I do see what you mean about your plans being utterly changed with this dx. It's like a sort of grieving process for the old life, the one you thought you had ahead of you if you hadn't become ill. And grieving does take time. It'sa constant process, some of it will ahppen without any effort from you, just by time passing and getting through the next few months of treatment. Sometimes help is needed - you can probably find someone who will discuss all this with you at the hospital, eg a specialist nurse or someone in the chemo unit. the 'new normal' is a term used here before, and gradually you will discover this - it won't be the life you planned for, it will be a different one, but some elements of your old one will, I am sure, be possible for you. I hope so anyway.

I hope this is helpful. I do need to sleep now. Back tomorrow probably, and others will be too. Much love to you, A2Z, and to everyone else too. xxx

atoz so sorry to hear about your cat. And work and everything just seems like you have too much on your plate right now. Not surprised you are depressed - a normal reaction in the circumstances. But, although you find it hard to believe right now, you will get through the treatment and find you are able to get enjoyment from life again. 11 years ago after a period of mental ill health I was told I would never work again. But, I started small (with a paper round) and built up my confidence to talk to people and function on a day to day level then went temping and repaired my cv and finally got a permanent job. At the moment you say you can never have another pet, can't travel or get a job but once your chemo is done, reassess and concentrate on what you can do. Oue local cat shelter always needs foster carers for cats with kittens and volunteers to spend time with cats at the shelter. And what will be the bar to travel, insurance may sort eventually, once you feel well enough it may not be the bar you think it is. (I went away without insurance while on sick leave for bc - but that was to family and I thought I would take the risk of being able to get home...)

Sorry I've gone on a bit.
Hope everyone had a good night (or at least persuaded the power rangers to let them doze on the sofa!)

Time for a Mum says. She is up and porridge eaten so time for second coffee and toast and marmalade...

What sense you speak Basketz

Hi AtoZ but sorry that you find yourself here. I think you will feel "better" once you have the first chemo under your belt. I had chemo for BC last year and the sense of anticipation and fear of the unknown was so much worse than the actual reality. Yes, I still felt like shit, but it wasn't as awful as I had built it up in my head.

Also, I know that I am grieving for my old life and I think you need time to get your head around everything that has happened to you. DX on its own is one thing, but coupled with everything else you have been through is too much for you to handle all in one go. Yes, your life will be different after this, but can still be full of love, laughs and fulfillment - it will just take time. Perhaps you need to focus on one thing - getting through the first chemo, for example - and put the other stuff, like redecorating, in a box in your brain for now. I'm not saying don't deal with the way you feel about things, but I think you are being too hard on yourself if you try to juggle everything and come to terms with everything all in one go. It will take time, love, so give yourself that time and take things one step at a time. Stick with us, because we've all been where you are in some form or another and can hold your hand and help you through it. Thinking of you lots x x x

It was one year yesterday since my diagnosis. Bit of a landmark?

Waves to all you lovelies. Hope everyone has nice plans for today? Taking DS to meet friend at soft play - boys run around like mad things, mummies gossip. Excellent

X post jchoc meant to say well done on the job front - great news that they'll match your salary in new position! You are obviously too valuable to risk losing

AtoZ Of course you are depressed, you wouldn't be human if you weren't, with all that has happened to you. Plus post operative depression is a recognised side effect. Please don't feel you have to be "positive". It can be a tyrrany imposed on those of us dealing with Cancer but there isn't a shred of evidence to prove that it makes a difference, being sad, angry , in denial are all natural and healthy reactions. Barbara ehrenreich wrote about this after she had bc mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/the-relentless-promotion-of-positive-thinking-has-undermined-america,508811e0d7fc7b56702e1aa1 I would let your care team know how you are feeling and press for more counselling if you feel it would help, especially as chemo can make you depressed .

In terms of your worries about travel, I travelled abroad very soon after chemo, our insurers didn't quibble, but we did have existing cover. I think that once you are officially in remission they actually can't discriminate but you should check that out. And you can travel within the nhs , there's the uk to explore?

I also wonder why you can't have another pet? If it's the fear of infection, then I think your main worry is humans rather than cats! Having a pet is proven to make you more healthy, although goon dog challenges that a bit what with the reeking havoc with my herbaceous border playing football with a hedgehog incident...

You will find once you are having chemo that it is the little things that matter, normal becomes a treat. So make sure you plan little treats to spoil yourself, nothing heroic, but indulge yourself, you deserve it.

if you can get another pet AtoZ then that would I'm sure be brilliant therapy - I spend much time burying my face in my cats fur and taking huge comfort in her affection- from an infection point of view (and speaking as one having chemo) I can see no problem.
I also wonder if you've thought of Mindfulness meditation as a mens of focussing on the present moment,rather than the past or future - it helped me when struggling with anxiety. I'm sure that gig will agree. If you are interested I can post some info. (don't want to shove it at you if it's not your thing- it was very much not mine until I tried it)
Hooray,belatedly for jane's job !!
Am going to start work again tomorrow- several projects on my desk,feel a bit nervous as usual- any gap away from work makes me feel like that !

I also think another pet is a v good idea. I have a dog, cat and horse and all three were fantastic to share life with during chemo and everything else. If it's a decent chemo regime, you can have at least one workable week in three, which means you can still have holidays of some sort. I took a lot of short breaks, and they even moved a chemo so I could have a slightly longer one. There are also specialist insurers who will cover you for travel, and there are holiday companies that specialise in providing do-able holidays for people with health needs. It's a lot to think about, yes, but it's possible.
Definitely need a large unmumsnetty hug and a virtual too

And some for anyone else that's in need.

Hurray for ned's one year landmark. Hope you had a to celebrate :). Soft play a good plan. Mine: sed to love that and ITS likrd that they could run off loads of bounce with minimal input :)
You will enjoy your work once you have started mas Good to have a break, though, How are your hands?
Must pack and make early dinner as driving home today and don't like driving in the dark...
Dd1 has all my batik kit now, she is back at college tomorrow.

Duh - excuse the typos - on phone!

Waves to amber snaffles a

Morning All

AtoZ everyone else has spoken lots of sense .
And I think the feeling that (sorry forgot who said this and on phone so can't scroll back) we have to be positive all the time adds more pressure .

We do need to mourn what we thought we were going to have and do with our lives .
Then we can get on with our new lives .

I was given a terminal diagnosis 18 months ago .
I am presently in remission , but that could change at any point .
But I have decided to look at my cancer as any other chronic illness that people have to live with (diabetes etc)

You are at a very early stage still . And are still coming to terms with everything .
And ontop of it all you've got life changes like retirement and loss of a pet too .

Be kind to yourself , and give yourself a bit of time to adjust before you write yourself off !

Jane that's brilliant that the new employers will match your salary . Well done you !

Not sleeping too well these days . Combination of late nights whilst in Christmas mode , and not being in a routine probably . And also (photos on our Facebook group) truly truly mental hair !!!

I have woken up this morning looking like a cross between Rod Stewart and Spock !!!
Definitely a hat day today

Ooo yes, love the hair, Topsy :-D And thank you for proving that I am right to be wary of straighteners, too.

Glad others learn from my mistakes Amber

Well I woke up feeling much brighter than I was last night when I posted by long whinge. Thank you everyone who replied with encouragement and understanding. I really needed that.

I recognise that what I have is post-op blues. It's supposed to be very common in heart patients and my heart was slightly damaged in removing the tumour. So this all makes to me. I suppose recognising that you are depresssed is much better than being in denial and plodding on - at least I'm getting help.

Strange thing is that I didn't even like elements of my 'old life'. Detested my job and couldn't wait to escape - just not in these circumstances. Nowadays I feel like I'm living someone else's very empty life. Just going with the flow is what I've been doing since suspected dx in Sep so carrying on with it for a few more months will be OK. But afterwards I need to start looking for new interests and things to do.

I've tried Mindfulness but it's not for me at present. The way my treatment is going I have started off as a fit person and been damaged by a major op and will be further damaged (hopefully temporarily) by the chemo. Mindfulness just reminds of how well I am right now and how much of that health I shall be losing through future treatment. Perhaps it will be a good therapy post chemo. I used self-hypnosis to combat pre-op anxiety which was quite effective but I'm no longer anxious - just very teary.

Getting another pet is a huge moral dilema for me. I would dearly love to have another cat and it would definitely give me a purpose in life again but to me a pet has always been 'for life'. I could not bear to let down an animal if I became to unwell to look after it and it had to be rehomed. I would feel I had failed it through my own selfishness at taking on an animal knowing I may not be able to offer it a home for life. DS says I'm being ridiculous and that offering a home to one even if it's not for life is better than leaving a rescue cat to languish in a shelter He says he may be able to look after it in the future if he had to - unlikely I think. My best friend suggested getting an elderly cat but I've been through the illness and loss of my own cat recently and don't want to face that again for many many years. Maybe fostering is an option. I realise I've written a lot about pets here but I've always had animals throughout my life and to me a home is not a home without animals around, so they're important to me.

Travelling abroad is really not that important. There's plenty of the UK I have yet to visit. I just miss the sun - but we all do after these recent dismal summers. I don't actually miss my old job but I had planned to get some part-time work in my retirement, however since my dx I'm adamant that I never want to work in paid employment ever again. Can't really explain why I feel this way.

Anyway, thank you everyone. Your experiences are really helping me. Tomorrow is chemo Day One.

Best wishes to everyone who is having treament, appointments or recovering from procedures nest week.

forgot to say- well done ned -if that's appropriate for 1 yr since dx - you're doing so brilliantly- am excited by all your classroom organising.

topsy the terminal bit you wrote, did they say that to you ? does it mean that secondaries are terminal ? I know incurable but terminal sounds so,well,final I keep wanting to ask how long I might live (obv. no one can know) and when I google (naughtily) it says lung mets have a poor outlook- onc. said 2 years....

Afternoon all

Just catching up with the posts. AtoZ -everyone has spoken a lot of sense, and there's not much I can add, - you are bound to feel very down my dear, - I sympathise enormously because i was very much the same in the first 3-4 months after DX, and like you I couldn't think about a future, and didn't dare to plan anything.
Sometimes I think we sort of protect ourselves by thinking nothing will ever be good again, we will never be able to do anything again etc. - that's very natural, - preparing for the worst so that we don't have expectations to be dashed.
I can only say it is a long haul - we get used to illnesses that can be treated in a short space of time and then we are better, Obviously cancer doesn't work that way, it takes time, and for that time some aspects of your life will be to some extent on hold. But not all aspects.
Once you start your chemo you wil be able to see when your good days are and maybe plan small things to do that make you happy and relaxed. On the bad days, don't fight it, go with the flow and look forward to the good days, knowing they will come.
Pets are really one of the best therapies IMO, - and it is very sad you lost your cat so recently, but don't rule a new pet out yet, - it's certainly a possibility.

Its a very tough place you are in now, - a limbo place, waiting for treatments, not knowing what to expect. Be very kind to yourself, treat yourself, do things you enjoy, be 'selfish', you will reach a better place - I can guarantee it Hang in there, keep posting, and let us support you as best we can oh and and xx and and cake.

topsy - don't talk to me about hair - mine looks like a cartoon electrocuted person atm. I am getting through huge quantities of wax trying to keep it looking vaguely sensible. Hats all round

Went to DS's for a birthday tea yesterday which was lovely, his PIL were there too and they are really nice people so it was a jolly occasion. DDIL had made a lovely buffet, and DD made a cake (carrot with cream cheese frosting for the cake fans who like to know these things )

MAS - I wish DH would let me clip his hair, - he does his own and it looks very 'unusual', plus he leaves little heaps of hair all over the house as he can't seem to stay in one place while he does it

amber - I didn't know you had a horse, - how brilliant, you lucky old thing

Love to all, and waving to everyone xx