I have to put in writing that I am taking responsibility for the risk that my baby might die from not vaccination

[StarlightMcKenzie]

The exact words the nurse spoke!?

I'll put something in writing if that is what they want but not that.

Apparently they have a duty to inform the HV of the risks that I am taking and have I heard the recent news oday of all the babies dying?

I'm bloody cross with this nurse tbh.

I did my best too starlight.

Seriously naughtymummy.you use a biscuit emoticon to a mother about their child with asd and you think that is appropriate?

No I apologise , I think the concept that vaccination causes autism is flawed.

Which type of autism? You do know it's autisms not autism don't you?

Which type of autism do you think vaccines cause ?

Ooh Is this like a game? Is it my turn?

Which type of autism do you think vaccines didn't cause?

Or can I start an argument about something else that Leonie didn't actually say?

Oh we'll - lol. I've had 3 glasses of wine so go for it......

I might even join in!

Funnily enough, in my wine state I just cannot be arsed with no written declarations!!!!!!!

See...I've sat on my hands a bit here. I think it is breathtakingly arrogant to say that something which isn't proven has been disproven, especially when there are parents who have living proof of the link between vaccination and autism in their child.

Now, on balance, I think the MMR etc., are safe for the vast majority of children, and the benefits of the MMR for those children and for those who cannot be vaccinated is evidenced. However, for those children who have a reaction, either immediately or delayed, it is devestating.

Why can't people accept that science is not exact, that we don't know far more than we know and that until we know everything, there will be links between events which cannot withstand robust evidential challenge, but nonetheless are there.

Why do people have to square up to posters who care, day in day out, for children who have been affected by vaccines and tell them that their life is not real?

Why not ask my friends who sat with their kids in ICU/HDU post MMR naughtymumy. Maybe their type of autism. In one case at least the paediatrician seen to think so.

The powers that be seen reluctant to find out either way so I guess we will never know.

HTH

You can vaccinate your child to protect others in certain circumstances. I chose singles for ds (after a great deal of research and in the knowledge that singles themselves weren't necessarily an evidence-based choice) but chose to include rubella vaccine. Because I wouldn't want any risk of my child transmitting rubella to a pregnant woman.

I had what we called German measles as a child before the vax was available - very minor illness but in quarantine so a week off school, which at the time I thought was fab. But my best friend at school was deaf in one ear and had a hole in her heart due to rubella in her Mother's pregnancy, so there was no way I wanted to cause any harm to anyone else.

I lived next door to a rubella baby (now adult!)

DS1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child (we knew it was coming so stayed in; more than one way to be responsible blah blah blah).

Oh yes of course, wasn't having a pop at anyone else, especially not people who have good reason not to vaccinate. Just making the point it can be altruistic in some circumstances (although still ultimately selfish because risking ds giving rubella to anyone else would have made me feel shit).

saintlyjimjams - if you are still awake - I read this thread and felt nostalgic. Are you the jimjams of old - of about 10 years ago? If so i remember my very first intro to MN and the very first time |MN really changed me was a vax thread and your heartbreaking and emotive post about your son and his autism. Is it you?

If I were in your position, Starlight (and Clumsasaurus), I'd insist on a referral to a paediatric immunologist (and pay for it myself if GP refused and I had the finances to do so). Especially if I had a different reason to refuse each vaccine for each of my 3 children. I'd really want to know what an expert in the field, with access to the latest research, had to say before I made the decision to go against medical advice.

My mil didn't vaccinate her 2 against whopping cough due to the scare in the 70's. They both caught it and were in hopital for a while. I vaccinated mine on her advice. Its hard, i guess their your kids so your choice, you have got your reasons, sorry not much help. I guess the nurse is trying to cover herself although a simple decleration would have been enough

It's okay Edam I lknow you weren't - just seemed a good place to mention it. I do know a rubella baby (as mentioned) and someone permanently damaged from measles (my mum). I also see the other side.

Yep lisalisa it's me :) ds1 doing (in his own way) very well ondeed now (there's a link in my profile to more info). Hope all is well with you x

All I am saying is that their is insufficient evidence. The reactions are exceptionally rare.

I am aware that ASD is an umbrella term. Most cases are multifactorial (including a genetic predisposition). I am slightly confessed why Leonie is saying that severe reactions to vaccines are more common, even though her children are unimmunized.

Imagine the world we would be living in now if everyone thought like you OP.

I hope you realize that it is only because the majority of us are vaccinated that you are able to feel safe enough to take the risk that none of us will infect your child with a horrible and possibly life threatening or debilitating disease.

Have you actually read the thread Isabelle or did that little gem come from the OP.

Naughty mummy - I'm sure my son's case is genetic - although I think the 'genetics' affects his immune system ( given the form of his regression, family history, blah blah blah). Anyway multiplex and simplex cases have very different 'genetics' that much is known.

Why can't OP get a referral to a clinical geneticist? It would be justified given the history and risks - even to have the precise genetic defect explained in detail. Most GPs would find it difficult to confidently interpret these tests. Then you would have some evidence to base future decisions on.

"Why do people have to square up to posters who care, day in day out, for children who have been affected by vaccines and tell them that their life is not real?"

Yes, this, agree.

"I don't believe that anyone would vaccinate only to protect other children.
I think it is a truly admirable thing to factor in. But I simply don't believe it is ever the only reaon."

I agree with this also.

Elaine I'm not going against medical advice. I haven't had any. I have just been given a generic population-level scare story. No-one will agree to give me access to individual medical advice.

I suppose I could always add this to the very long list of fights for services on behalf of my disabled child but I only have so much in the way of resources and on balance I'd rather spend the time with my children.

Influencing my decision in this (and many things now) is having been failed repeatedly and mercilessly by people paid by the state to help us. I do not have the respect for professional opinion I once had.