Calling all Raggedies - the THIRD Ragged Bits thread. Childbirth injuries, sphincter problems, fistulae... all welcome.

[Jacksmania]

First thread here, May 2008 to June 2009.

Second thread here, June 2009 to Oct 2012.

Welcome everyone with ragged bits due to childbirth. We're sorry you had to find us, but we promise to hold your hand and listen.

There is no TMI here and nothing is too gross, too embarrassing or too horrible.

All welcome.

chacha I agree with the others that negative feelings about your birth will generally get worse before they get better. If you're unhappy about how things went it's best to deal with it straight away, before it becomes a bigger problem later on. Hugs to you.

cravingcake glad you're hanging in there! Not long now. How are you feeling about the cesarean, any worries? Have you been able to plan anything nice like music or photos during the procedure?

No not long now, am feeling a lot better about it all, my body seems to have chilled out now and although i'm still getting pains its managable. Havent thought about photos, but have been thinking about music but cant think of anything inparticular that i really want so may just go with the radio thats on at the time or the surgeons choice.

How are getting along?

cravingcake that's good to hear.

Well I'm booked for a birth afterthoughts session next week, we'll see how it goes!

I hadn't thought about things that way (that it's natural to have the birth experience come back to the forefront once things are starting the settle with my baby). It's a reassuring thought, thanks.

I had it explained to me that way when i went for counselling. Its a bit like fight or flight but on a slightly longer scale, adrenalin kicks in and your body & brain switch to survival mode and then once the panic/danger has passed you can then start dealing with what actually happened. Good luck for your afterthoughts session, make sure you write down anything you think of between now & then that you want to know more about.

Glad to hear you've got a birth afterthoughts session chacha. Is it possible to take someone along with you? I only say this as it can become a little overwhelming when going over all the details and a second pair of ears can help to recall details that you may miss. Also be prepared that they might not be able to give you a straight answer about why you tore. Often the answer is obvious - big baby, shoulder dystocia, forceps etc but other times there's no real explanation and it's just one of those things and a case of bad luck. Hopefully they'll have some helpful answers for you though. Best of luck with it.

cravingcake glad your body has chilled out, hope the majority of the pain has subsided too? I have a question, were you ever told to wait a certain amount of time after your tear before getting pregnant again? I only ask because I've been told to wait until my DD turns two to fall pregnant again, so I've got 13 more months to wait. This is supposed to be to allow the muscles the most amount of time to regain strength but I've not really heard of other ladies with bad tears being told this.

Neptuna no i wasnt told a specific time frame tow air but i did ask at one of my many gynae appointments and was told that if i feel ready then it shouldnt be a problem. I think that must have been about 9-12 months afterwards. They said because everyone is different and they dont know how my body will react to another pregnancy so cant put a specific timeframe and also that i had healed very well. They said that it would be a case of getting pregnant and then managing any problems as best we can for the duration. I think after a c-section they like a years wait between pregnancies.

I have a prolapse as well and also had an extremely painful skintag on my perenium which i had removed as it was interrupting everyday life and made sex almost impossible. DC2 was conceived about a month or so after the tag was removed so i think you would know when your body & mind feels ready.

That's interesting you weren't given a time frame. I don't mind waiting another year but only for good reason of course. My physio said she'd like to see me reach a higher score before falling pregnant again. My pelvic floor strength is perfect but the strength of my bottom squeeze (tmi sorry!) is only 3.5/5 and she wants it to get to a 4.5 at least

Did you have your strength checked when you went for physio? I think mentally I need more time to get over the tear too before trying for another bub. Only a few days now til your cesarean...eek!!!!!

I didnt have my strength checked or measured as i didnt know i should. Once baby has arrived and i'm back at physio i will be asking for it though.

You do need to be ready mentally so dont rush if you dont feel ready. The emotions and hormones second time round are a lot harder.

Just 2 days to go now, never thought my body would hold out this long.

How is it that the emotions and hormones are harder second time? Because your only experience of labour was bad?

Well done on getting this far cravingcake, your body's done fantastically! Best of luck for the cesarean if I don't speak to you before the 21st. I wish you an easy surgery and quick, painfree recovery. I'll be interested to know all about it xxx

That is part of it neptuna, its also because of everything that surrounded my DS birth - pnd afterwards as example, my anxiety about whether i'l get that again is high. And just generally because second time you know so much more about what can go wrong. Plus you dont have the same time to prepare yourself as you are busy looking after DC1. Even now i know i'm in for a hell of a shock tomorrow but dont quite feel ready, or know what more i can do to be ready. Its like first time was the gentle small roller coaster that an 8yo would find fun and this time its the all screaming loop the loop upside down roller coaster that leaves you with white knuckles in comparison. But i get off tomorrow only to start on another

cravingcake I think I know what you mean, particularly on the PND front. I know a second pregnancy will be hard on me physically (without even considering the cesarean) but it's the mental strife that I'm most worried about increasing, hence my plan to wait another 12 months.

Anyway enough about me, your bub is born now so CONGRATULATIONS!!! I really hope the surgery went smoothly and that you are recovering well!!! Do come back and let us know how it all went when you're feeling up to it. In the mean time take care and rest up! xxx

Glad I found this thread....just been referred for endoanal ultra sound 14 weeks pp....was a shock to be told I might need surgery coz I thought my symptoms were quite mild (didn't want to be stuck with them for ever but felt i could cope for now) and would improve with time. Before giving birth I didn't even know these problems were possible. Also finding it hard to think about next birth being choice of cs or possibility tearing with worse symptoms next time round. My antenatal group are lovely and ive mentioned Im having follow up but the details are just so embarrassing. cravingcake I hope you are doing well.

Thanks!! My little baby girl is now a week old and i'm recovering really well. Much more mobile than i thought i'd be and in less pain now than in those last few weeks of pregnancy so really happy. The thought of it all was worse than the actual procedure, although i am still on that hormone high of having a new baby so give it a few weeks and see if i'm the same

bel dont worry yet about next birth, theres plenty of time before then. I can say that so far recovery from elcs has been a million times easier than recovery from my vb.

congratulations cravingcake!!! that's so good to hear... enjoy your beautiful new baby

bel2013 I'm just like you, the thought of the "choice" we have for the next birth is depressing me. I want to have a good vaginal birth so badly, but I don't know if I'll be ready to take the risk.

I had my Birth Afterthoughts appointment. The midwife was really lovely, but clearly didn't get why I was upset - she told me my expectations had been too high, and I should just be happy to have a healthy baby. (it actually doesn't sound so lovely now, but she said it in a nice way, iykwym?)

I found out that when I arrived at the hospital, my baby wasn't back-to-back yet, and that the midwife who examined me thought she would naturally shift to the right position. Now I am kicking myself for not walking around/changing positions like I should have (but then I wasn't exactly in my right mind at the time). And I'm also a little upset that none of the 4 midwives I had during labour suggested I try favourable positions to shift her. The birth afterthoughts midwife said it "may not" have changed anything, but I can't help but wonder... :(

Also found out I had a 3c tear, not 3b like I thought. Huh.

I asked the midwife about future births, and she said that until recently a CS would have been automatic in my case, but that now they encourage VB. The risk is "minimal", she said. (which I can't help but think is easy to say when it's not you risking to be torn to shreds down there) I brought up the risk of incontinence later in life, and she said "don't worry they can always tighten you up with surgery if need be".

All in all, it was interesting and I'm glad I went, but it certainly didn't bring me peace of mind or closure.

Also, just saw this on the news...

gawker.com/opera-singer-cant-stop-farting-after-surgery-loses-jo-1509793293

This poor, poor lady needs to be made an honorary member of the Raggedies club.

(the comments are a little depressing, because people are clearly so clueless/misinformed... can't blame them though, I had no idea either until I started looking into it post-birth)

Hi cravingcake glad to hear things went so well! How did you find the epidural/spinal? Hope you continue to recover quickly and enjoy your precious new baby.

Welcome to the thread bel but sorry you had to find us. Don't worry too much about the endoanal scan, it's painless and takes a few minutes at most. Its very unlikely you'll need further surgery, only a small percentage of women need rectal surgery but more seem to have work done on the perineal/labial areas. Do you mind sharing what your symptoms are now? Nothing is tmi here! Whatever they are they are very likely to ease over time so again try not to worry too much.

Your next birth will depend on whether your tear was 3a, 3b or 3c and if you still had symptoms before getting pregnant. You'll more than likely be encouraged to have a cesarean but a vaginal birth remains an option if you're comfortable with that idea. Everyone on this thread has a wealth of experience around the subject of tears so ask away if you have any further questions!

chacha that midwife doesn't sound so lovely to me! People that say things like that belittle the awful experiences we've all had and effectively tell us to suck it up and get on with it, grrr!

I also think she is seriously downplaying the risk of another tear and incontinence in later life. The odds of another tear are low but of it were to happen it's very unlikely you'd have a good outcome. A colorectal surgeon told me if I tore again I'd more than likely need a colostomy bag!!! I hope he was exaggerating but shit, it's not a risk I'm prepared to take (sorry no pun intended!) He also gave me some stats on damage to the sphincter even without external tearing but I won't go into that now. Basically, if you can pinpoint why you tore and have a pretty solid guarantee it won't happen then maybe you could go vaginal but I definitely wouldn't take the advice of a midwife solely when it comes time to decide on delivery method. But I'm sure you've got tons of time until then! And sorry to hear your tear was 3c, mine was too

That article is just horrible by the way! The poor poor woman, I really hope an excellent doctor can still help her out somehow!!

Hope everyone else is going well

Tear was a 4....think I got off lightly with the symptoms as its mostly wind escaping (and occasionally sth else at the same time that's the problem (since birth only). Doing the physio exercises religiously!! Mine was due to back to back first baby coming out by forceps. Scan date and follow up taking ages to come through so just going to keep on with exercises for now.

Been doing some research....royal college of obstetrics and gynaecology quotes the following statistics from the green top guideline 'management of third and fourth degree perineal tear' ..... if symptomatic or abnormality on anorectal manometry or endoanal ultrasound, consider elective c section as 17-24% develop worsening faecal symptoms after subsequent vaginal delivery. Just thought I'd post in case anyone had found this thread looking for that information.

Hello. Hope you don't mind me popping in so to speak. it's just that I have seen a thread and wondered if anyone could help because I can't.

Here

Thanks x

had a read very sorry no help either but as suggested earlier in thread, maybe the birth trauma association can put you in touch with someone who has had similar?

Bel I think you'll find that over time the wind problem will lessen and doing your exercises will help immensely. I still have trouble with wind but it doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it did and it's been 11.5 months for me. I've read those stats too and they make perfect sense to me. Although I do understand that some women value a vaginal birth very highly.

sparklingbrook no advice I'm afraid but I know there are a long line of "any old prolapse" threads that maybe you could suggest she looks up? They seem to have a lot of knowledgeable ladies there.

Hi.all, I.m 7mths pp from a very quick 3rd birtg and I think I have a RVFistula, I have gas escaping from front amd bleeding from bk during periods. Its taken ages for docs to listen and I.m finally seeing colorectal in March. I.ve had a pelvic ultrasound that they said was all clear. So stressed and feel like my husband must ne disgisted by me. I also have to.wipe inside back passage with a babu wipe after every bm. Can anyone relate?

Hi kianaidan I don't know too much about RV fistulas but will try to help anyway. Firstly, try not to worry as fistulas are very rare and it's unlikely you've got one. I think they most commonly occur after a 3rd or 4th degree tear, did you have one of those?

I think a lot of women have the wind out of the vagina problem after birth. Everything gets stretched out and air gets stuck in there then comes out noisily at a later time. Or even sometimes air gets trapped there when passing wind sitting down and comes out the front once standing up, does it sound like that could be happening to you?

Not sure about blood from the back passage during periods, but is it possible it's trickling back that way and appearing to come out of the back? That would only happen with a sanitary pad of course. My perineum has a sort of gully in it now since my tear and it can make things messy during a period. Apart from that I can only suggest you see a doctor as you've already arranged and be assertive about getting answers. It's great that your pelvic ultrasound came back clear though!

Hopefully some of the other ladies will be able to offer advice too, sorry I can't be of more help. Best of luck getting answers and let us know how you go with things!

Hi all. Just popping by quickly as this has dropped off my tio. to all