why do parents refuse their baby / childs vaccines?

[bethjoanne]

in the uk we are so lucky to have an nhs---- doctors ,nurses ,treatments and vaccines we should be so grateful.in third world countries babies /children die of terrible diseases and also our relatives eg great great great grandmas would have done anything to have their children vaccinated IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE DREAM TO HAVE AN NHS AND VACCINES, instead they had to witness their child suffer i dread to think what they went through.
what country you are born in is luck of the drawer.
we should be grateful for medical care and vaccines available to us and have our baby/ child vaccinated.
i cannot believe some parents are so selfish and ruthless putting others at risk and starting an epidemic what happened in history and other third world countries .when the nhs is here to help and protect us now.x
ps think about babies 0 day old to 15 months who are too young to be covered /vaccinated.10 babies have died recently from whooping cough.also there has been 2 well known footballers had meningitis recently so there is reported cases,surely this needs nipping in the bud .
why are parents still refusing to vaccinate?

Ruby

Ideally countries would move to adding inactivated polio virus vaccine to the vaccines given for individual protection along with opv to prevent transmission. The reason that doesn't happen is cost. Still better than not vaccinating at all, especially since polio eradication is on the cards.

Yes. There is a LOT of evidence to support this.

From Pubmed for those who like university conducted research papers
Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination.
Wendelboe AM, Van Rie A, Salmaso S, Englund JA.
Source

Department of Epidemiology, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

Despite decades of high vaccination coverage, pertussis has remained endemic and reemerged as a public health problem in many countries in the past 2 decades. Waning of vaccine-induced immunity has been cited as one of the reasons for the observed epidemiologic trend. A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years. Further research into the rate of waning of vaccine-acquired immunity will help determine the optimal timing and frequency of booster immunizations and their role in pertussis control.

From personal experience:
I had it in early pregnancy, despite being immunised. It spread round my place of work and the local community like wildfire. Children and adults all had it. Sadly I didn't take a vaccine take up survey but roughly 90% take up means 9 out of every ten people that caught it were vaccinated. Some recently, some 20 or more years ago. All of those people were a 'risk' to newborn babies.

Are you sure about this?
Evidence, please?
Analogue, if you were as well researched as you like to believe you are, you would know that if you get breakthrough illness after being vaccinated, it is far more likely to be mild. True for whooping cough, chicken pox and measles. I think your skeptical emoticon exemplifies exactly the slightly paranoid crankosphere of non vaccinators.

We know that the pertussis vaccine immunity isn't as good as expected. The answer is to develop a better vaccine, not just to say 'oh well, not vaccinating then'. Some protection is better than none.

Theres plenty of scientific evidence analogue. I'm on the iPad and on my way to work so I have no time to link but I'm sure in your extensive research you must have come across this fact, no? Its been discussed on other threads. Just do a search. I'm sure you'll find lots of evidence. It's a biological fact I'm afraid.

Ok. Pertussis.

Natural immunity and vaccine immunity both have limited life span. However, if you have artificial immunity, you won't have had to have had pertussis- which is very dangerous for young babies, and incredibly distressing for anyone but particularly for young children.

And if you get the illness while you are "immune" it is likely to be mild.

EB - I have heard it said many times. Still waiting for scientific evidence to prove it though. Feel free to provide some when you find yourself in front of a proper PC. Feel free also to ensure that your narrative is dripping with sarcasm. It always adds weight to mature debate.

Apparantly I am immune to both pertussis and Measles. I've had both naturally, following vaccination. I can assure you neither where mild. Particularly the WC which was really awful. I wouldn't want a little baby to catch it, no. But then there are lots of things I wouldn't want to happen to a little baby and damage or death from vaccines is also in that list.

Sadly the risks of the latter are 'likely to be' under reported because there is a general unwillingness in the scientific and medical community to acknowledge them for fear that it may make parents less inclined to tak ethem up for their babies. Sadly, that leads to the silly situation where people are having to make very important decisions with the wrong facts and figures.

The reason my first post said that these threads are dense is because we're all arguing from a position of relative ignorance (whether you happen to think so or not).

Analogue- in the meantime- could you expand on "the whooping cough vaccine barely works"?

I mean that for something that carries risk of death and injury it doesn;t last very long!

Well, by your own account it can last as long as natural immunity. And pertussis carries a risk of serious illness and death- 10 babies this year, I think. What are the stats for death through vaccination?

Apparantly no deaths at all from pertussis (and the rest) vaccination. In fact, it's so safe they are going to vaccinate pregnant women. I am confident that they have a vast body of evidence to be sure that this is safe for mother and child so who am I to argue?

analogue, unless you dispute the figures I showed, I don't see how you can sensibly claim that "the whooping cough vaccine barely works."

Do you still assert that, or would you like to reconsider?

I still assert that PigletJohn.
I would not like to reconsider. Thank you.

Do you dispute the figures, or do you ascribe the enormous drop in cases following vaccination to some other cause?

So what exactly do you mean by "hardly works"?

Sorry- "barely works"

"brain issues"?

"quickly"?

In how many different formats would you like an expansion of my claim that it hardly works? I've said it at least three different ways now.

But all of this is a red herring to drag people away from the purpose of thread. To what end, I don't know.

Ultimately, you guys know what you're talking about far more than I do. What this should teach you is that you can't reason with an imbecile.

And on that note, I will bow out.

I promised myself not to get embroiled in these stupid threads again and here I am.

ooh no, I'd hate to have brain tissue. Yuck!

Leonie
"I agree it isn't a good vaccine"

Do you disagree with the figures I posted upthread then?

You said it" hardly works" because is only confers an immunity that lasts 4-12 years, unlike "natural immunity" which lasts 4-20 years. Is that what you mean?

Nothing worse than parents who think they know best, above any actual research that is credible. I put them in the same category as other people who monumentally get on my nerves, and often overlap in these annoyances, like people who allow their precious children to queue jump and those that park on zig zags outside of schools.

Or those who let their unvaccinated children put the lives of others at risk.

Well, analogue has gone now, so I suppose I'll never know what she meant by "barely works"

To my simple mind, the purpose of a vaccination is to reduce the rate of infection, illness and death resulting from a disease

analogue didn't dispute the figures which to my eye show that the pertussis vaccination achieved that.

So I deduce that she must be measuring its effectiveness in some other way.

I wonder what that is?