Reactions to MMR - how long do they last?

[MrsMoppetMama]

My DD (13 months) had her MMR 11 days ago, she had a bad reaction after about 3 days (high temp and trouble breathing) and we took her to urgent care center. Although this has now passed, she seems to be really out of sorts and has stopped sleeping through. Her normal routine was brilliant as she went down from about 7 - 7. Now she is waking every two hours and is very unhappy. Is this normal? is this because of her MMR or is it just a phase? She has also stopped taking her bottle before bed, is it likely that she has weaned herself? Help! It's been pretty easy going with her up to now so a bit stressed by all this.

You are welcome to say you don't know. Please don't bother with "I don't want to say". You've been rude and callous enough already, and nothing will shock. Just tell us what you think, without covering it up.

Same old anti-vaxers, same old crap.

So glad that you have the required insight and energy to keep posting Elaine. Keep up the good work.

vaccines aren't perfect, they sometimes cause reactions, they really are better than the alternative world where no one is vaccinated.....

And cote, it can only be supposed that Pagwatch's DS's autism was triggered by the MMR. If I were in her position, I would be thinking EXTREMELY hard about vaccinating the rest, anyone would. But, correlation does not equal causation. To make my point: My neighbour, who broke his back two years ago went to a woo magnet healer - one seance and he's walking much better, swears by it. The difference is dramatic - would you call HIM a liar?

where have I suggested thimerosal might be responsible for a rise in autism? I don't think anyone is particularly suggesting that still are they? More that it might be involved in certain cases.

Are you saying given the choice you would prefer to inject your children with a thimerosal containing jab, rather than a thimerosal free one? That's a decision I really can't understand.

Yep those same old anti-vaxers who are so anti vaccination they vaccinated. I was first in the queue for men C, how anti vaccine of me.

Is there any point me mentioning that many metabolic pathways ate known to operate (for want of a better word) differently in autism? No, I thought not.

Intrigued saintly - why men C? Surely, if I type "men c" and "vaccine damage" into google I'll find pages of how the vaccine has damaged babies. Probably find some links to autism while we're at it. So why this one?

Same old unthinking pro-vaxxers, same old crap. Don't know what they think, can't help being rude, can't respond to any of the points raised, don't bother reading peer reviewed links.

Same old same old crap.

Bfg in case you haven't noticed Elaine is NOT here to answer the question that's been put to her so many times. She might have had the energy but she's certainly had no insight at all - frightening how callous and unpleasant her views are. AS yours must be, I suppose, as you think she's so great.

"it can only be supposed that Pagwatch's DS's autism was triggered by the MMR."

well that's what the anti vaxxxxxxxers think so welcome to the club

Because I gave it to my typically developing eldest son before he regressed into severe non-verbal autism. And no, I don't link his autism directly to a vaccination, but 12 years down the line I know a lot about the research into autism and the immune system and look forward (if that is the correct word) to further findings. I suspect they'll help his siblings make the most sensible decisions. Perhaps even by the time they move into the high risk age group for meningitis C.

Eleven years ago I was laughed at by a paediatrician for paying attention to ds1's gut symptoms. A year and a half ago a neurologist and paediatrician asked me whether we'd considered trying a special diet to aid with behavioural symptoms. The times they are a changing.

She probably FINALLY got bored of all your endless ravings. I did a long time ago. Amongst many, many other things, I got bored of the endless linking to scientific papers of which the poster CLEARLY had no understanding with sentances quoted out of context.

And the reason why I finally gave up trying to debate this topic: the anti-vaxers machine gun assertions which take a bloody long time to research and then refute in a correct manner. I'm no immunology expert, have not looked at all the epidemiological studies nor neccessarily understand all the population genetics of disease variants (and I have a PhD in population genetics btw - but I'm humble and admit I have limits)

It is clearly easier to make an assertion than to refute it.

So that is the tactic of the anti-vax brigade - make assertions, endless assertions...finally bore the pants off the most dedicated posters and then complete their 1000 post threads with only the anti-vaxers surviving.

I'm sorry, but you can't say you're not anti-vax saintly (of course you can say what you like, but it doesn't make sense). You weren't anti-vax until your DS developed autism. You are now on these pages to argue....what exactly?

AccuracyNOTRequired: "supposed" links to the noun "supposition" - therein implying doubt. If I thought these two events were causally linked, I would have simply said "Pagwatch's DS's autism was triggered by the MMR."

Read the thread - no one was raving unless you count the "bizarro crankosphere" nonsense along with the !!!!!!!!!!!!! and the CAPITALS

She isn't bored - she doesn't know what to say - and neither do you. There's no response. "We" (loose use of term) haven't raved - there are just clear arguments, and links, and so on, and if you could respond appropriately you would - but you can't, so you don't.

That's why you gave up - you simply can't refute. And you can't be polite enough to say - that research looks really interesting.

You immediately look for something to refute it - you never think, well that does look rather interesting and concerning. It's just NO, it must be WRONG because it just must be, I believe in vaccinations, they can't be right, but I haven't got enough time to google - so I'll just go away and blame them for - what, having too much evidence?

Bfg: it can only be supposed - means - it is a highly likely possibility, if not the only possibility

what you seem to have meant is "it is possible"

LeBfg bet you haven't read a single peer-reviewed paper Saintly has linked to. So you don't really know what you're talking about - you throw "anti-vaxxer" around to randomly insult people rather than address the evidence the offer. Now why would that be? Oh yes - because you can't address it the evidence people offer and have to flounder around trying to smear them.

Look Accuracy, even if it were proven that the MMR jab DIRECTLY precipiated Pagwatch's DS's autism, this would still be no reason to not vaccinate IN GENERAL. For Pagwatch, of course it does.

Rubella contracted in pregnancy is linked to autism too. How do you know the rates of autism triggered by MMR (lets assume a link) would be greater than that caused by the rubella infection itself? It's this sort of reasoning and level of analysis that is sadly lacking in anti-vax world.

I looked at many, many links that you and others dig out. I don't need to look at all of saintly's links - I just clicked on one and it clearly says that autism comes about by a combination of environmental and genetic factors (like many, many genetically-linked diseases) and she uses this link to refute the implication that autism is genetic. What is the point in replying to these links? Criticising every last one, pointing out flaws - not in the research, but in the reader's understanding....frankly, life is too short.

I'm doing general arguments here as a deliberate tactic. You clearly do not respond to logic. You believe in woo magic FGS!

Don't say "look" to me like that please.

The problem is that pro-vax people insist that MMR is not now, never has been or ever will be connected to any triggering, regression or development of any kind of autistic spectrum disorder ever.

Plainly there is evidence that it could well be.

Accept that such evidence exists, and that more research should be carried out on the back of it to identify vulnerable people, and there we are. Problem solved.

Therefore, Bfg, if you want to accept that there is evidence that MMR could well be associated with such a triggering, or regression, that is good news.

If not, it is a frightfully weak argument to accuse people of having too much good evidence and to thus be forced to resort to accusing them of "endless raving" and "crap".

"you believe in woo magic ffs"

I mean this is just incoherent abuse

The pro-vax brigade have been investigating this link for years Accuracy - scientific careers would be sealed with gold if they could find a link. Researching autism is very much in vogue at the moment. As a scientist, I would be happy to accept the evidence that MMR triggers autism...if the science was there. But it isn't at the moment. Do you think scientists are all part of the cover up plot too?

If you're feeling sore Accuracy perhaps this might cheer you up: I'm not immoderately impressed with the amount of posting you do on this subject

There are a couple others too, not here at the moment, who are similar. Where does the energy come from, the time and more importantly, the motivation? I would love to know.

Oh snap! I'm not impressed by your PhD in population genetics!

I can't imagine where their energy comes from, especially when some are looking after very poorly children after vaccinations.

Oh that's not a snap at all is it.

Yes, I've come to find it interesting it very quickly - I've read a lot of nonsense and abuse by pro-vaxers over the years - until I saw some that finally made me join and now after a rather meh start I'm finding it quite gripping at times.

Oh and I have a PhD in..... oh is there any point? No, not really.

I'm here to talk about the children I know who have suffered devastating reactions to vaccinations that have left them in the same sort of state as my son. And I'm here to find out more about the immune system and autism so I can make better decisions for my younger children. And I'm here to talk to other parents whose children (or siblings - as there are few on this thread) have suffered severe regressions. It's a pretty isolated situation to be in, and very very different from raising NT kids so it's fairly common to share experiences and I'm interested in their stories.

I'm not here to argue with those who are unpleasantly aggressive though (give Elaine her due, she has not been aggressive).

I mentioned the rubella link for autism pages ago.

Also you have completely misunderstood what I said about genetics. There does broadly, appear to be two 'types' of autism. Broadly divided into multiplex and simplex cases. In multiplex cases autistic traits appear to be highly heritable with the broader autism phenotype (BAP) running through the family. Simplex autism arises out of the blue and is associated with spontaneous CNV's. There appears to be no correlation with the BAP.

My point was to counteract the commonly held misconception that 'autism' is inherited in a simple fashion, with the environment playing no role. It's not controversial within the autism research community to acknowledge that in some cases of autism a genetic predisposition of some sort has triggered autism in response to an - as yet unknown- environmental factor (it's also accepted there's likely to be more than one). If you are remotely interested here's a blog post giving some idea of the sorts of things currently being investigated

I'm so sorry you misunderstood what I said. Hope that helps. (Although I doubt it's of any interest - after all you don't have to worry about any of this stuff).

But you have to start by understanding that there is no such thing as 'autism'. It's not one condition.

and here's a very simple explanation of the differences between multiplex and simplex

Interesting isn't it.

And here's a very simple summary of the potential types of interplay between genetics and the environment in cases of autism.

Again, I don't expect everyone to be interested. But if you have an autistic child, presumably some of those reading do, then you may be interested.