Vaccinations and nursery schools

[Louise1010]

This is my first post so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

I am just beginning to look at nursery schools for my 15 month old son, and I am a bit surprised that they don't seem to care whether or not he has been vaccinated. I expected it to be a requirement.

It seems incredible to me that I have to provide evidence of my cat's jabs to the cattery but when it comes to children anything goes.

Has anyone come across a nursery school in the UK that does require it?

Too sensible and considered an approach for you leonie?

Well Autism Speaks does say It remains possible that, in rare cases, immunization might trigger the onset of autism symptoms in a child with an underlying medical or genetic condition. (that's in your link) and certainly I have (as I have already said) seen that sort of comment made at conferences part funded by Autism Speaks. I suppose the question is how many children who end up with a dx of autism have 'an underlying medical or genetic condition'. That is, in a broader sense, a big question for autism research (i.e. how much is preventable - and I'm not just talking about vaccination there).

Actually let me clarify that a bit. Some of the models I have seen would see an immunization trigger as 'rare' but the underlying medical or genetic condition as not necessarily that rare (it's just that usually the trigger is something else. However, wouldn't it be good to know the underlying condition so we could avoid all - or as many as possible- potential triggers at a critical time in development).

"it remains possible". Well, almost anything remains possible, doesn't it? Not remotely probable, but possible.

And this looks like research worth funding (I do wish Autism Speaks would date their news, am I being thick and missing a date somewhere?)

In general, I disagree with a policy that says, "Despite what this study shows, more studies should be done." At some point, you have to say, "This question has been asked and answered and it's time to move on." We need to be able to say, "Yes, we are now satisfied that the earth is round."

Nicely put

Well now we're just back to whether or not you believe your child is more at risk or not. I didn't feel that ds1 was at particular risk which was why he was vaccinated. Having seen him regress following an immune activation for want of a better way of putting it I feel that possible may well be probable for his brothers (sharing 50% of his genetic material 50% + I guess if you include mtDNA, which may be relevant for autism :shrugs: )

Because, if it exists at all, any effect is very rare, autism speaks (despite still clinging to the remote possibility of an effect) recommend immunization as the best way to protect your children. They understand that the evidence shows that the mmr- autism drum is no longer one to bang.

I think it's commendable and brave of them to change their advice on the basis of the scientific evidence despite having nailed their colors to a different mast. And they don't qualify it with 'if you believe your chi,d is more at risk then don't vaccinate'. no, it says the best way to protect your child is to vaccinate him or her. Couldn't agree more.

I don't understand what's insulting?

'that is uncalled for and bloody insulting'...this is coming from someone who recently said on here that vaccinators don't give a shit about killing babies as long they are female and from the third world.

Leonie; it's not worth getting upset, - turn the computer off and go and do something nice instead. Very few people on this particular thread are interested in what happened to your children (I am, and it might be an interesting discussion to have in SN, I know a few people in RL who think a pre-existing condition was made worse, but here it will just be used for point scoring).

I'm turning the computer off and going surfing. Biggish waves forecast today - although choppy. Usually ds1 loves conditions like that so hopefully he'll be stoked today.

I hope that doesn't sound patronising by the way. Just have been in the situation in the past myself of sharing a lot of information with people who don't give a shit and it can be upsetting.

Anyway, wetsuits, board, leash.....

Of course people on this thread are interested in Leonie's children. The trouble is that a debate on the actual broader subject becomes impossible if people use their own personal circumstances as evidence. Once somebody has said "this happened to my child and I know it was because of vaccination" it becomes impossible to talk about he subject without sounding heartless. It, intentionally or unintentionally, shuts down the debate.

In this case does "don't give a shit' = "don't agree with you"?

No it doesn't. I say 'this happened to my child and something different happened to someone else's child and something different happened to someone else's child'. That is what would be expected with autism anyway and research backs that up. It's not a single condition with a single cause.

I'm pleased people care though, as I couldn't really feel the concern flowing through the screen. It can be incredibly upsetting to share personal stories which are then used to ridicule or ignored as irrelevant because everyone else is okay.

I'd still advise a surf over trying to explain your decisions Leonie - better for the soul.....

As a nurse once said to me in A and E when I started to explain why ds3 wasn't vaccinated 'You don't have to explain, it's your decision and no-one else's business'.

"I'm pleased people care though, as I couldn't really feel the concern flowing through the screen. It can be incredibly upsetting to share personal stories which are then used to ridicule or ignored as irrelevant because everyone else is okay."

If they were being ridiculed then you would be justified in being incandescent with rage. Ignored as irrelevant.....more problematic. Awful though it is, personal stories are irrelevant in a general debate on a subject like this. And, as I said, very discussion-stifling.

Noones ridiculed anyones personal story.

The only thing I ridicule is misinformation which leonie (and others) have provided in bucketfuls.

Anyway, we're talking about vaccinations, not what life is like with an autistic child. One has nothing to do with the other ( at least that's what the scientific literature says).

Frankly, I don't think anyone said anything to you which could justify anger. I was certainly made very angry by your remark about baby girls in the third world, but I didn't comment on it because I didn't want to derail the thread. But as I said, the minute people start using thir personal histories as evidence debate bcomes impossible.