Alcoholism - help for family member

[ishopthereforeiam]

Hi,

Fil is an alcoholic and has been since dh can recall. He's not aggressive / falling over etc but has caused himself severe liver damage and still continues to drink a lot, secret swigging from water bottles during tbe say etc.

Dh, sil and mil have all tried speaking to him many times to no avail as have the doctors. Other than threatening him with not seeing dgcs to go cold turkey, does anyone have any tips on how to help him?

There's a similar thread running in Relationships at the moment and the consensus there is that the family member is almost certainly beyond hope. As I, and others, have said on that thread - you are trying to rationalise with an addict and it simply can't work. Threatening him with no access to his dgcs won't work. If he's continuing to drink after causing severe liver damage, he cannot be worked on to change his mind.

I think you would do well to go to Al-Anon (and tell him you have gone, as one of the things that scares most addicts the most is being found out) and seek help for yourself and for your DH and MIL.

Seek support for you (if you need it) and your DH, MIL etc.
Forget about FIL until he decides he no longer wishes to kill himself with alcohol. Unfortunately, nothing and nobody will change his mind until that day dawns (speaking from experience).

There truly is absolutely nothing that you can do for him.
For you and your family, there is AL-ANON. Their website is very informative.

So sorry for you all, its just hopeless and heartbreaking.

Btw, I should add that if he were to go cold turkey, this is quite dangerous. He probably would need a managed withdrawal. This is a job for a healthcare professional. But I think there is little prospect that he will ever attempt a withdrawal seriously.

Thanks all, tripbot good point on the slower withdrawal, the last thing any of us want to do is cause him worse health problems.

But seriously, you need to stop imagining that appealing to his sense of reason or priority is going to change this situation. I'm very sorry, but it isn't.

tribpot is right. Sounds like she speaks from bitter experience too.

There is no sense of reason, just the need for drink, all consuming and nothing else matters, full stop.

I am sorry to agree with tribpot, but sadly there is nothing you can do to cause him anything, as you seem to think in your above post, as he simply will not change unless he decides he wants to. Your appeals, interventions, threats, tears and pleas will not, and will never, work, unless he decides he wants to stop drinking. Sadly, as he seems to be so advanced, this will very likely not happen. What all of you need to concentrate on is not letting him or his actions bring any of you down with him. Concentrate on your own lives, and your lovely children. I am not saying walk away, not at all. But addicts have a terrible habit of causing a lot of collateral damage before they implode. Only people who have lived this can look back and realise what was happening, and try to tell others (as we are with you).
The very very best of luck with it.

Thanks again. We're just trying to appeal to him any way we can.

Having spoken to mil it may not be a physical addiction as he has managed a month cold turkey last year and was irritated but no sweats, shakes or vomiting etc.

It's also tough to know how much he drinks as mil is at work during the day and he works nights. Mil and sill suspect he fibbed to the dr saying 30 units as he has alcohol hidden around the house, in tbe car etc.

You can do some reading around this, or Al-Anon can help, but some alcoholics can go for long periods of time between drinks; it doesn't make them sober. It's possible he did make a month last year or that your MIL just didn't catch him.

Likewise if he's drinking in the day it's extremely unlikely he's really only drinking 30 units a week.

Please get help for yourselves. I think you imagine that if he went a month without drink he can pull himself together if he wanted to. It simply doesn't work like that.

I would echo advice re Al-Anon.

Going through a similar thing myself. It's heart-breaking but it's their battle.

Take care.

You cannot help FIL I am sorry to say. Unless he wants to help himself there is nothing that anyone can do or say; you yourselves have to disengage from the roundabout that is alcoholism. Alcoholism is a family disease and you're all caught up in his alcoholism. It becomes all about the alcoholic, your initial post for instance is mainly about him.

You also cannot help anyone who does not want to be rescued and or saved. You cannot go in here trying to rescue and or save him; it will be futile and will only make you feel worse.

Would suggest you talk to Al-anon as they are helpful to family members.

ishop - been there, done that with my father. I've the scars to prove it :( You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped :( He turned viciously abusive on me when I tried to help him and I was the one who came off worst. Family and his friends all backed him up and I've ended up being the one who is shunned. You can't win. For your own sanity don't get involved unless he asks for help.

Agree with all the above and also speaking with experience. My ex is an alcoholic, now recovering. He could go for weeks without a drink.

The problem is as soon as he has a drink he cannot stop, and it then is more important to him than anything- his kids, his job and his safety have all been put in jeopardy.

Al anon is probably good, I know a lot of people have drawn strength from it, though have not myself. There is a website called sober recovery which has forums. One of these is for friends and family of alcoholics. I have got a lot of insight and support there- much of which has proved its value. It's a bit American but very useful nevertheless!

The biggest lesson for me is that:
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it

All we can do is not enable, easier said than done!

My FIL and his partner of are alcoholics, FIL probably for around 15 years, it is tiptoed around in the family, occasions always involve excessive booze etc. Relationships have suffered (alcohol not the only issue). FIL is detached and selfish. seemingly OK health-wise (on the surface at least).

In my ignorance, have long wanted to tell FIL how worried we are about his and partner's health, that the drinking is v bad for everyone etc; or simply to let him know that I am v angry with him for the way he treats my DH. Have restrained myself though as don't want to make matters worse.

The al-anon website is unhelpful, no actual info / advice is easily accessible. Can anyone point to any advice?

With respect to those three lessons, where does that leave family in terms of practical options? Is it a matter of putting up and shutting up; reducing contact; having boundaries, or something else?

Not read previous posts but do NOT tell him to go cold turkey. this is so dangerous- he may have to doba managed withdrawal or get a home detox (where medication helps).

Going cold turkey can have serious health complications including fits.

For me it is about setting the boundaries of behaviour you are prepared to accept. So, in my case that involved me saying to my partner I am not prepared to accept you drinking around the kids. ( obvious you might think!?!)

He couldn't make that promise; therefore I think that was what made me realise it had to be me who would follow up that boundary by asking him to move out. Which he did - after lots of ado as you can imagine. Ultimately, what those phrases did was make me realise that while I could not change him, however much I wanted to, or however sensible it was, I could change the environment- ie he did not have to be in it- it was my choice to be with him or not.

Does that make any sense? By the way, I don't see any harm in saying your thoughts to your FIL. It might not do any good, but it might enable some understanding of why you dont want to see him.

Dozer, you might find this book helps you somewhat, there is a section for families.

I don't, however, think you should tackle your FIL directly. That's up to your DH really. But I think the point of the three lessons is to let you know that you cannot solve this problem, the only thing you can do is protect yourself from its fallout. What steps that involves may depend on your individual circumstance - it could be to insist on only seeing him at a time of day when you know him to be sober.

Thanks squeegle. Sounds like you've thought stuff through and were v strong with your ex.

I guess with FIL part of the problem is that DH wants to see him more.

One of the things we have argued about is that, despite rarely seeing the grandchildren, FIL is keen to take them out / have them to stay overnight alone when they are bigger (couple of years time). We have just changed the subject so far, but I have said no way to DH, and that I would be willing to explain why to FIL (theDC don't know them v well, can't trust him and partner to keep the DC safe due to drinking, even if not actually drinking their judgment on safety, driving is poor, they have physical withdrawal symptoms etc).

BIL and SIL (his wife) agree (also have DC) but DH is concerned about hurting his dad and that his dad will reject him / DC as a result of saying no.

DH is maybe still in denial a bit, and as someone says above, everything revolves around FIL and his feelings, grrr. I am often in the role of the bad guy for wanting to talk about the issue at all, wanting to stop enabling by having boozy events etc.

This thread has inspired me to get better informed and get some advice, so thank you, and best wishes to others with probs like this.

Tribpot, yes, think you're right, it is for DH really, not my place etc, but find it v v hard to keep a lid on my thoughts and anger at times! Having small DC helps, can make excuse (eg nappy, "tired" DC) to get a break to count to ten and calm down! the boundaries thing is helpful, and thanks for the book suggestion.

Can only echo what everyone else has said. Just to add though that his GP is probably more aware than you possibly imagine. They know that people, especially drinkers, commonly halve the amount they say they've had to drink.

When I took my friend to hospital, he told them he drank about 10 units a day. I spoke to the nurse (I was really worried that his lie may have had implications to any treatment), she just looked at me sympathetically and said "Yes...we can tell" :(

may imagine, not possibly

Agree with you, absolutely no way.

Before I really understood how strong the compulsion to drink was, I thought that if I asked nicely then my ex would not drink when looking after them and I was away. One night I came back unexpectedly early from somewhere, ex was flaked out in drunken stupor, a pan of curry had boiled dry on the cooker.

Thank God I did come home early- can you imagine! I realise now I should not have been so foolishly naive.

Alcohol is stronger than anything, and in dealing with people who have this compulsion you have to keep it always at the front of your mind. They may kid you and themselves that this time it will be different, but frankly, unless someone was in active recovery, I would never believe the word of an alcoholic, however they may protest! Theyre just not in control.

Sounds like a difficult situation for you- your DH obviously cares about his dad. However, if possible I think you need to persuade him that his duty of care for his DCs needs to come first.

How awful. My friend's ex was the same, she too left, but has been battling evere since because her ex wants their DS (5) to stay regularly overnight (at the moment he sees him couple of times a week in the day, often taking DS to pubs etc). Lawyers have advised her that even though he is still drinking, she would probabky lose should it come to court, and court would say her ex could have DS overnight. So she's trying to put off the day for as long as possible.

My DH does get the need to put DC first and face facts, I think, after much talking. But is hard for him. Guess is much easier for me as I don't love FIL!