Chronic insomnia, please help

[Grockle]

I can't remember the last time I slept properly. I'm on ADs & have zopiclone but even with that, I wake up several times a night. I was up for over an hour last night. And woke up several times on top of that. It's a lifelong problem - I remember being 7 and not understanding how everyone else seemed to be able to close their eyes and sleep.

I've tried sleep hygiene, various meds, lavender oil, massage, no caffeine etc but nothing helps and I don't know what to do. I'm so tired I can barely move and I feel so sick, I can't eat. I have to be able to function properly - I need to go to work, look after DS etc. I don't know how to manage it. There must be something that will help?

Can you die from exhaustion? I feel like this is slowly killing me

Tried prescribed one can't remember what its called but will ask thank you

There have been times recently when I really thought I might die of exhaustion. I know I won't but it feels like I am dying slowly from the inside. I wander round in a daze, having no idea what is happening around me. But since life carries on, I have to as well. Even though I'd very much like to crawl into a hole and sleep for days.

Know what you mean grockle cross fingers youl find something to help soon

I've never had a problem with getting sleeping tablets, are you being quite forthright?

Temazepam at a high enough dose would knock you out. I am quite resistant to medications that make you sleepy normally due to long term use of opiate pain relief and repeating prescriptions of diazepam for anxiety and pain relief, but whack enough temazepam at me, and I'm out like a light.

I ensure to tell my doctor that lack of sleep is a big trigger for depression for me, and that in the past it's caused psychotic episode, and they seem to be happy for me to manage my sleep with medication. Perhaps because I also manage it in other ways also and they know medication is a last resort rather than an easy fix?

And you can request for your doctor to split your solpadine, then he isn't prescribing you any differently, just giving you paracetamol and codeine separately. However, I don't find codeine at all any use for sleepiness. Anti-histamines are far better, or zopiclone.

Am quite often manic due to lack of sleep and gp knows this have even been hospitalised because of this, have literally begged but no go, zopiclone don't work for me, have been on anti psychotics before which do help but they are reticent to give me those either because of my taking tablets compulsion when I'm ill its my own fault I guess

Sorry to have hijacked your thread grockle was just so relieved to find out was not alone

No problem, ginger. It is comforting to know you're not alone and I'm sorry you are struggling with this as well. I've had similar problems to you in the past, by the sounds of it, and I'm terrified that I am heading the same way.

Its so scary I'd do anything not to be like this, everything is so hard really really hope we turn a corner soon

i think it was lack of sleep that triggered my breakdown

Hi, I don't have insomnia (so I'm no expert) but I know the two things that make it difficult for me to sleep sometimes - they are having too many worries and trying to sleep on an empty stomach.

I really don't think pills are the answer at all.

Make a list of things that are causing you any mental tourment and work through the list, crossing them off as you remedy them. This might take a long time, but you will feel like you are moving in the right direction.

Don't ever try to sleep without eating a good meal first. I think a good stodgy but healthy meal is a much healthier drug than any chemical.

I hope you feel better soon.

Some thoughts - I have encountered versions of this since my fourth pregnancy.

1. Solpadeine has caffeine in it. Not a good idea, quite apart from the danger to your liver from the paracetemol. You could try getting Codeine Phosphate instead (on prescription) but that risks bunging you up, so you will need a laxative as well, most probably.

1. Piriton is used by a lot of people - it's pretty harmless as these things go, and a double dose might work for you as a sedative (check with your GP). Much better than sleeping tablets.

1. IME sometimes lying in bed relaxing nicely and not panicking about whether you are sleeping can have 75% of the beneficial effect of actually sleeping. That's where relaxation exercises and meditation might come in, as a way of passing the time.

1. You have the option of not actually going to bed, and just using the time for hobbies, so it's 'me time', and therefore pleasurable, like the relaxing in bed thing.

1. You can get referred to sleep clinics who admit you overnight and investigate your vital signs while you lie there tossing and turning. That might be interesting.

1. There's a lot to be said for absolutely knackering yourself with sporting challenges in the outdoors as a way of massively influencing the way your body perceives night time. (Hard when you have that quivery sick feeling, I know, but perhaps on a better day in the good weather, a serious swim in an outdoor pool might be a start).

1. I have found that booking into the Center Parcs Aqua Sana spa on a weekday, and relaxing in all the steam rooms, gardens, meditation rooms etc, does a lot to reboot me, and I don't know why this is. It's an expensive solution, but it's a solution.

Boffin, those are the first things I try anyway, especially when my insomnia starts (apart from centre parcs), but once it's got a hold none of those things help.

Pills aren't the answer but when you've only had 3 hours broken sleep a night for a week, you need something to help before you have a complete breakdown.

I'm not talking a couple of nights of poor sleep - this is a lifetime of bouts of serious & chronic insomnia that have led to hospital treatment in the past.

No caffeine in solpadeine or solpadol

And I agree with grockle its not just the odd night and I have tried everything literally everything also I'm a skint single mum with no childcare so center parc is a ridiculous suggestion Imo

how are you expected to go overboard with exercise to "knacker yourself" when you havent slept properly for several nights, or enjoy pleasurable hobbies when youre so exhausted you want to die.
Its not about not being tired enough, its about your adrenaline levels being in such overdrive that your brain wont switch into sleep, no matter HOW tired and exhausted you are

Totally agree dinah we are talking chronic insomnia I can barely talk a sentence let alone exercise I guess you don't get it unless you've been thru it

pills arent the answer long term. Noone WANTS to rely on sleeping pills, but when the alternative is not actually sleeping and still having to get up every day and getting on with looking after children, its a better alternative

im sorry to be defensive, but i cant believe its been simplified as having too many worries and making a list of them and sorting out your worries one by one

as if it was that easy.

and i still have exactly the same sleep problems at centerparcs fwiw

Obviously we are not trying hard enough dinah

Actually Boffin offers some pretty good advice, I think you should listen to it and take it on board rather than just getting defensive. It all helps to some degree, pills are for the short term treatment of acute insomnia, to deal with chronic insomnia you need to make lifestyle changes and work on things like sleep hygiene, reducing worry, healthy diet, reduction or elimination of things like alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine, and lots of exercise. Relying on this sort of medication isn't healthy, you want to reduce the need for it as much as is possible.

Having skills like meditation and progressive muscle relaxation, being able to manage worry, knowing the way sleep works and having a good routine that allows for healthy sleep, none of this harms our sleeping. One of the biggest causes of insomnia is worrying about insomnia, being too focused on it just makes it far worse. You need to shift the focus onto something other than no sleep, how bad you feel and wanting to medicate to sleep, and look at enabling yourself a healthy relationship with sleep, even if you don't sleep, resting will help.

I speak as a lifelong sufferer of sleep issues myself. The medication only really helps when things are acutely bad, becoming reliant on it to sleep only makes things harder.

I'm afraid I have to agree. I do think it's terrible that doctors are so reluctant to give sleeping pills, but at the same time they are not the long-term solution. I say this as someone who dealt with insomnia for many years and still sometimes has issues, and yes I do know that feeling of utter desperation from no sleep.

The only thing that worked for me was the McKenna book, which is basically meditation and reducing the anxiety that comes from insomnia -- Rabbits is right, if you can conquer the anxiety (which actually is easier than I ever thought possible) that's most of the battle.

It's not to suggest that anyone isn't trying hard enough, but I think it's telling that the people on this thread who have gotten over insomnia are all mentioning meditation and the like. It really does help.

I don't want to take sleeping tablets they probably wouldn't work now anyway I have tried hypnotherapy, meditation, staying up and getting on with it ( had a week without sleep got high and was admitted to hospital, I have cbt and have had therapy in the past, I have tried everything suggested and they don't work for me, people seem to think I am lying about this. The only thing that works is seroquel which is an anti psychotic and mood stabliser which basically knocks me right out for a week and that is unrealistic with two small children. If I am defensive it is because I am so desperate but I do appreciate you all trying to help

Long-term use of sleeping tablets (and by that I mean, say, a month plus) can cause tolerance, but perhaps more problematically, rebound insomnia. I think that's partly why doctors are not always keen on prescribing them, in addition to the encouragement they are given by powers that be to get people off them. They can definitely have a place in the short term tho IMHO.

If mirtazapine's not working, how about another atypical antidepressant with sedating qualities? I was nearly put onto quetiapine (sp?) at the outset of my postnatal insomnia/ depression. I gather it's an anti-psychotic but is sometimes used off-label for depression with agitation and insomnia as key features.

Out of interest why can't you take sertraline? Does it make the insomnia worse in the short term?

Actually I think seroquel is the same thing as quetiapine, gingerchick

Yes it is