Chronic insomnia, please help

[Grockle]

I can't remember the last time I slept properly. I'm on ADs & have zopiclone but even with that, I wake up several times a night. I was up for over an hour last night. And woke up several times on top of that. It's a lifelong problem - I remember being 7 and not understanding how everyone else seemed to be able to close their eyes and sleep.

I've tried sleep hygiene, various meds, lavender oil, massage, no caffeine etc but nothing helps and I don't know what to do. I'm so tired I can barely move and I feel so sick, I can't eat. I have to be able to function properly - I need to go to work, look after DS etc. I don't know how to manage it. There must be something that will help?

Can you die from exhaustion? I feel like this is slowly killing me

She knows. I know its dangerous but when I'm exhausted and a bit mental its desperation, I know I shouldn't do it but I'm fine have very high tolerance to painkillers and I get away with it, I also have a compulsion to take tablets which my gp knows about. Am under the psyche team but thank you :)

I second the antihistamine recommendation. In fact, if you go to the pharmacy and ask for an over-the-counter sleeping pill, you will probably get a light antihistamine with no potential for addiction.

If insomnia is such a long-term problem, this sort of sleep has probably also become a habit for you, which you need to break. Take sleeping pills every night for a full week to break the habit (teach your body to "forget" night wakings), then half the pill, then quarter, until you can go without it.

Also: Is it falling asleep or staying asleep that you find most difficult?

You may well have a high tolerance to the codeine in it and need loads to make you drowsy/ pain free. You can't develop a tolerance to paracetomol. The opposite in fact- the more you take long term, the more toxic it becomes and even a minor overdose can do major liver damage.
I am a medic and have seen people for from taking a few extra tablets a day over years- you can either overdose by taking a
massive amount in one go or a small amount more than daily allowance over a period of time.

The GP knows that you're taking 8 tablets of solpideine in one go? And it's the type with paracetomol in?

My liver is ok had it checked recently don't know how it is but hey, do appreciate your concern I doubt the sleeping pills would work anyway because of past history

Yep its the solpadeine max or solpadol which is prescribed

I'm so sorry. I've dealt with insomnia most of my life, then last year it got really horrific in combination with sleep deprivation after having DS. I had really good results from the Paul McKenna I Can Make You Sleep book, it comes with a hypnosis CD as well. Normally these kinds of things never work for me, like you I had tried everything before, but for some reason this book really worked for me. My DH also had good results just from listening to the CD.

Also, I take magnesium tablets just before bed and they really help knock me out (try the ones without Vit B, which can wake you up)

Look I've been there with the sleeping problems, for years. Thankfully better now

But if you really need to go back to GP and tell her how many solpideines you are taking each day so he/she can access the paracetomol load you have had. It is probably safer to prescribe you pure codeine in this situation. No doctor would be happy with you taking that much paracetomol. And even if your liver function tests (make sure they add on gamma GT as this isn't in common bunch of LFTS) were normal recently they might not be normal now. every paracetomol you take over the normal limit will damage your liver- its cumulative

I'll lay off now but wanted you to have all the facts of what you're doing.

Does Solpadol have paracetamol in it? I never thought to check?

Antihistamines help sometimes - I have some strong ones on prescription but they don't keep me asleep. I have trouble falling asleep AND staying asleep.

Thank you I do hear what you're saying. Solpadol is paracetemol and codeine, I would take just codeine but can't get them

Yes 500mg per tablet so absolute maximum is 8 tablets a day- taken as 2 tablets 4 hours apart no more than 4 x a day

To be honest it's the GPs fault not yours not explaining how dangerous it is to take more than that. Most people assume its the codeine that's harmful not the paracetomol. Obv codeine in overdose can cause respiratory depression/ coma ESP if you are not tolerant to it , but while paracetomol is a totally safe drug WHEN TAKEN AT THE CORRECT DOSE, if too much is taken its very poisonous. There are accidental overdoses resulting in death and liver transplants every year, even in children- which is one of the reasons medised was discontinued.

If you speak to your GP frankly gingerchick and he/she realises what danger you are putting yourself in then she probably will prescribe you straight codeine or temezapam etc.

Totally take on board what you have said I am having a bad time atm but will try and sort myself out when I'm a little less mental, thank you

Why do you assume antihistamine sleeping pills wouldn't work because of your past history with codeine etc?

The thing is, when a GP can't do or suggest anything to help with sleeping problems, it leaves you feeling wretched and desperate and willing to try anything to get some rest. I feel stupid and ridiculous for (ab)using exP's meds (diazepam - bliss, Solpadol, tramadol) but I have to sleep. Nothing I have helps when it is bad and I have to look after DS and I have to go to work.

My GP knows I have taken someone else's drugs. I just want to sleep

Because I have tried them

It's so silly they should just prescribe sleeping tablets. I bet those GPs have never had a sleepless night. You could try another one and have a frank discussion?

Good luck to both of you

I began to suffer from insomnia as a single mum (DS used to get up super early, any time from 5, and I'd wake at 3 or whatever and not be able to get back off because I was waiting for him to wake up) and have had it on and off since. Also go through phases ofhaving adrenaline surges when I'm nodding off that jerk me back awake - horrid. I've tried all the usual pills and potions (ADs and sleeping pills) to little effect; what's worked for me is meditation. Learnt it from a local teacher and now apply it when I'm lying awake in bed - it sends me off very nicely. She designed a tailored meditation for me, but sometimes I just do the thing of lying comfortably and actively relaxing every part of my body from the feet up - ie, thinking about your toes and relaxing them, then your feet, your ankles and so on. I never get past my knees!

Really hope you find the thing that works for you. It's horrifying, I know - absolutely breaks your spirit. Good luck for tonight x

Exactly grockle I have to take care of my children I have no help and need my sleep

i really feel for you. I have had so many nights where i didnt drop off to sleep at all. Now i'll do anything. Generally this involves red wine and weed, which while it can come with its own problems, and is obviously illegal, is pretty much the only thing ive found which works,consistently, without too much tolerance building and without leaving me groggy the next day, and sometimes even that doesnt work, but its still better than sleeping tablet. My doctor was less worried about that than sleeping pills tbh

How long have you been on the mitirzapine? Im on venlafaxine which is another SNRI, and at first it made my insomnia worse, but after about 3 months, it really sorted itself out, and in the last few weeks (been on it since jan) ive actually been able to sleep with nothing.

I also find diazepam better than sleeping pills, because its anxiety that stops me sleeping more than anything, but i dont take sleeping pills more than once or twice in a row or they dont work anymore anyway

Thank you Staverton - are you a GP? Do you know why they are so reluctant to prescribe sleeping tablets? I was on them for many months when I lived abroad and didn't have any problems.

Meditation would be lovely. How would I find someone local?

Yes, diazepam helps enormously - I relax and then fall asleep. But my GP won't prescribe me that either

I've been on mirtazipine for 4 months now. It helped me a great deal in the past but I'm not convinced it's helping me now. I cannot take Sertraline.

Grockle, I just googled! meditation + my area. Was lucky enough to find someone who actually specialised in meditation for health (I have a chronic health thing too); she was utterly wonderful, came round to my house a couple of times and did guided sessions with me. Completely recommend it. I now try to do 20 mins every day and it's helped me more generally to feel calm and together, I think, which has had a knock-on effect on my sleep anyway.

Whereabouts are you? I'm in south London; can pass on the name of the woman I saw if you're hereabouts?

ginger - There are different types of antihistamines (I have multiple allergies). Some cause sleep, in a major way. Others make you slightly drowsy. Some others don't make you sleepy at all. Please trust me when I say that it is an avenue worth exploring for you. It is entirely possible that the particular antihistamine that you took did not have a strong side-effect of causing sleep.

Afaik, antihistamines cause sleep in a totally unrelated way to how opiates sedate, therefore your high tolerance to opiates should not have any bearing on how your body reacts to antihistamines.

Theres loads of risks attached with sleeping pills, they only like to give short courses now because of the addiction potential, which i think is ridiculous. They wouldnt say to a depressed person, well you can have a week of antidepressants to get your happiness back on track, then sorry mate, youre on your own.
People dont understand what a living hell it is to go without sleep. You will die quicker from lack of sleep than lack of food, and people assume its just having a bad night but they dont panic about it because they think theyll fall asleep when theyre tired, or they assume youre just not tired enough.