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Original poster

Vaccines and Scaremongering

153 replies

expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 14:36

Let's just put it this way: I do NOT trust the NHS when it comes to vaccines. These are the people who until last year were allowing jabs w/mercury to be given to 2 month old INFANTS, years after the substance had been banned in many Western countries, in order to save a few bucks.

I'll never know if this was what has caused DD1 to be delayed w/nearly all her motor skills. I had no idea they were still using mercury. I'm from the US, where it's been no longer put into jabs for infants. I just assumed that was a no brainer and the UK had done the same.

These are folks who allowed children to die, for years, of pnuemoccocal meningitis, b/c the vaccine is expensive.

So yesterday I bring DD2 for her 2 month checkup. I'd already understood that Prevenar, the new vaccine, would be out in Scotland sooner than April and I could put off DD2s vaccines for a fortnight until it was out.

Then I get there and they're telling me, 'Well, by the time the Health Ministers bring it out, maybe she'll be eligible for hte catch up programme.'

WTF?! The 'catch up' programme sounds like a load of shite to me. Upon further questioning, they're only going to give under 2s in the catch up programme two uptakes, one w/their MMR. As infants in the US, they get 3. I asked, what if they're under two but have already had their MMR?

Silence.

Seems the brain donors hadn't thought of that.

Sorry, but I smell a RAT. The HV and GP were encouraging me just to go and pay for it privately. Of course they were.

I told them flat out I trusted them about as much as I trusted a three-armed pickpocket and walked out. I mean, these were the ones who gave mercury filled jabs to infants.

Took some time out and composed a nice letter to my MP and MSP.

I'll post their response here when I get it.

TBH, I don't trust the jabs they give to kids here.

The GP tried to frighten me by telling me my daughter would contract pertussis if I waited until Prevenar came out to vaccinate her at all.

How, I asked? DD1 doesn't go to school and is fully immunised. In fact, we hardly go out at all and when we do, it's to play and walk outside.

OP posts:
chapsmum · 10/02/2006 14:47

Have you seen the constant gardener by any chance???

Original poster
expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 14:47

.

OP posts:
Original poster
expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 14:47

no, chaps. why? tell, tell, tell!

OP posts:
chapsmum · 10/02/2006 14:50

I think the thing to consider here expat is not the role of the NHS, but the role of the government in the NHS.
DRs base their clinical practice from well founded and rigourus medical research.
They should not be influenced by budget.

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 14:51

sorry the film the constant garderner is about what your talking about, it is set in africa and it is so sad...prob because it is such a believable story about money and medical research of vaccines.
Ithink you would like it!

getbakainyourjimjams · 10/02/2006 16:20

Well yes, I agree. I would love to give ds2 tetanus jab, but can't get it without bundling it with many more I don't want him to have (having one vaccine damaged child I prefer him to receive the jabs I'm really worried about- he's 4 now, and does need tetanus).

The pertussis thing is rubbish. 2 strains of pertussis about now, one of which isn;t protected against by the vax, so vaxing is no guarantee anyway. I could go on and on about pertussis sucsceptibility as well, but I don't.

Mind you the US isn't much better- yep thimerosal was removed years ago, but old stocks of thimerosal containing DTP were used for a long time, and the hepatitis jab given at birth contained thimerosal as well.

Trouble is its the old problem of what is best for an individual isn't necessarily best for the population.

Actually can I be a pain and ask which clinic you got prevenar through? I;d like to see what they can provide tetanus wise.

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 16:30

jimjams, Have to say that I have always been very much pro vaccine, however, since reading your posts I am considering things more carefully. I am still very pro vaccines, but like I said, I feel it is very much a medical decision that should be made for the appropriate reasons and cases such as yourselves should be consederd very carefully.

It would not be beyond expectation to speed the research that will isolate the gene that predisposes people to autism and screen children at birth (as MMR is not the only recognised potential trigger factor).

I feel the government have made a rod for their own back by not being as open as they should be and by allowing money to rule what really is a medical decision. I dont think this just applies to vaccines.
Does that make sense or am I confused??!!

Socci · 10/02/2006 16:38

Message withdrawn

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 16:51

None the less socci it is recognised as a genetic condition, and as such it would not be on reason to develop screening to those genetics....

Socci · 10/02/2006 17:06

Message withdrawn

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 17:12

I personally dont agree with your choice of words about autism being vaccine damage but I dont to go into another debate about MMR and autism.

What other damage are you suggesting that current vaccine do?

Passionflower · 10/02/2006 17:47

Thanks for this expat, it reminded me to hound our director of public health too.

They are bloody clueless, just following what happens in the UK. Anyway have put the wind up them but suspect I will have to get it privately as they are saying "later in the year". The secretary tried to fob me off untill she realised that I did actually knew what I was talking about (thanks to Amyjade). Am to get a call from the states phamacist on Monday. Obviously impossible to get hold of a civil servant on a Friday afternoon.

Passionflower · 10/02/2006 17:49

Oh hell, spelling and grammar has gone to pot now. Side effect of virus perhaps (hopefully )

Original poster
expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 17:56

Healthcare Now (Edinburgh) Limited, jimjams. Located at 12 Stafford Street in EDinburgh.

healthcare now

Basically, I pretty suspicious now. These people gave me daughter a jab containing mercury, even though there was an alternative - which I didn't know about.

We'll never know what has caused her delays - her genetic tests and hormone levels and whatnot were normal.

But I'd be a liar if I said I didn't think about that DPT jab. A good friend who has an autistic daughter also wonders.

And let's face it, it's not a very good way to gain someone's trust, is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 17:59

I think they're trying to hold off on giving out Prevenar as long as they can, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this announcement doesn't come in the face of someone up for re-election soon. I'll do some digging now that I've finished up a report I needed to finish.

Just like them giving out thiomersal containing jabs as long as they could.

They don't give a fat rat's arse about kids excepting their own and their mates.

OP posts:
Original poster
expatinscotland · 10/02/2006 18:01

It just brought out the devil in me to be harrassed like that. Sorry, I don't take that well and I'm a skeptical person as it is. It makes me wonder and doubt, tbh.

OP posts:
Socci · 10/02/2006 18:10

Message withdrawn

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 18:11

Expat, That is a very interesing point. Now to my knowledge after extensive research, has never been proven to have had any link to vaccine damage.
As a health professional we are taught to make clinical judgements based on the best clinical evidence. If there was never any clinical evidence to suggest that there was a link, it would have ment removing a preservative (which was at that point essental for production) would have been to go against the founding principle of medicine.
Additionally in medicine the outcome of any procedure must outweigh the potential harm it carries.
If there have been any clinical studies proving the link I would be v interested to read them as a mother and as a professional.

I think as a mother I fell the same mistrust as you do. GP's have to manage the budget of their surgery, this does not always make for the best clinical judgement.

Clinical governace set up in the shadow of the aulderhay scandel, has indeed devolved responsibility to local level. With this responsibility has come the burden of satisfying targets ie immunisation scheduals.

I think It is highly innaproriate that money plays any part in the advice given to mothers consedering vaccination.
Vaccination should be done with the mothers informed consent. How can it be informed If not everyone is aware of all the facts before hand?

Admire you for writting that letter and if I have same response about prevenar I will be joining you.

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 18:14

Link I am referring to is between Thimerosal and vaccine damage.
Sorry

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 18:16

thanks for clarifying that socci

Socci · 10/02/2006 18:17

Message withdrawn

ruty · 10/02/2006 18:22

expat sorry if i misunderstood you on the other thread. There is evidence of studies of thimersol on mice chapsmum, perhaps jimjams can provide the link [again] if she can be bothered. Not having a go at you chapsmum , but its there in the archives i think.

chapsmum · 10/02/2006 18:22

It was not cost effectiveness, at the time it was introducesd it was the only avaliable preservative, like I said socci, I am open to considder the evidence linking it if you could tell me the medical papers that show this preservative was linked with vaccine damage I would be more than happy to read them and reconseder my pov.
Mercury is present in our fillings and we still chose to have them in much larger doses than was ever present in themerosil. Pregnant mothers continue to eat tuna which contains mercury.

edam · 10/02/2006 18:24

The basic premise of medicine, going all the way back to Hippocrates, is 'first do no harm'. Using thimerosal as a preservative in infant vaccination was a betrayal of that principle. There may not be any definitive evidence that it actually caused harm (but how hard has anyone looked?) but you shouldn't do things that are potentially harmful in the first place unless it is necessary in order to avoid greater harm, such as taking medicines with their risk of side effects to cure actual illness. Thimerosal was not an essential component, it didn't have to be there.

ruty · 10/02/2006 18:24

and mercury is not good in fillings or fish either. Alzheimer's sufferers were found to have twice the amount of mercury in their brains than is the 'normal' amount, after death. I am rubbish at links but will try to find it for you.