ITV Tonight programme, Emotional blackmail?

[MancTommo]

this is the first time I have been here (father) quite upset after watching ITV Tonights programme. I felt it was really one sided and almost an advert from Dep of Health to vaccinate your child. I have 3 daughters, middle one who has been vaccine damaged (yes I am sure) as are many professional off the record. We were one of 10 families in the UK, who received legal aid to fight the government on this subject, only to have funding pulled weeks before going to court (Richard Barr solicitors acting for us and others). My daughter is now 16, has autism, SLD, and severe epilepsy. What annoyed our family last night was the lack of acknowledgement that any children have been affected by vaccine. As parents we are not against vaccines, and in fact our 3rd daughter was vaccinated even after we knew what happened to out second daughter, but with single vaccinations. Just feel its about time to stop treating parents like idiots. The truth will come out one day. Me and my wife have so much to say on this subject and feel like I have been holding it it for too long now...

Who pulled the funding?
I'm sorry your upset by the programme, didn't watch it myself.
Write it all here, might be of interest to others here,

The government stopped all legal aid funding for any vaccine cases. Literally pulled in it the 11th hours, and Solicitors were shocked at the move.

I totally agree with this, I was also very annoyed by the programme and also felt it gave a very one-sided view. If you noticed, the wording was chosen very carefully and therefore sounded arkward throughout, because they were so careful not to say that vaccines didn't damage and that Mr Wakefield was proven wrong.

It was obviously thinly disguised government propaganda and I do think it will affect so many people who chose not to vaccinate. The only thing it did well was show that Measles is a nasty virus and can have serious consequences on a small minority of children.

ps this is the first time i have ever posted on MN and did so because i was so annoyed by the programme!

I totally agree with you manctommo it was one sided and very very sad that they used such methods to push this with no voice for parents like you. They should have been ashamed of that whole programme.

@analogue agree with you about the propaganda...
measles is nasty and yes vaccines do work for the majority, but there are many children adversely affected by vaccines. If you look at other countries like America and Japan and others, they all agree that for some children, this can have adverse reactions and pay compensation to these families. There is a vaccine damage act in this country, but you cannot get through the front door!!
You have to prove more likely than not that there is a causal link between the vaccine and the damage to the child. No professional would say 100% categorically that "NO" child could be damaged.
Our daughter was given DTP vaccine in 1995, when they were using whole cell pertussis vaccines. Because of the issues in Japan and America and other countries with this vaccine, because off so many liable cases they changed the vaccine to Acellular vaccine in 1998, which had less side effects.
Cases have been won in other countries with this vaccine, and we and other families whose children were vaccinated pre 1998 were going the same way and had a very positive case, and we believe this is why government pulled the funding. This was a trump card on their part, as they know that if just one case had won in britain, it would case serious outcomes for them with regards to vaccines. This would also have effected peoples opinions on mmr.

They say there is no evidence, but what about the thousands of children affected? We just want to treated like other families in the countries that have accepted that there may be causal issues with vaccines within a minority of children, and to put money into why this has happened.

Immune systems all develop differently. On an immature immune system, how can they expect every child to be the same. Heres a simple analogy of a chemical reaction within an immune system.

Peanuts are safe for the majority of people, but for some they can have an adverse reaction from mild (a rash) to serious (an anaphylactic shock, causing death) You do not know wether your child has any problems until they ingest that peanut, you cannot reverse it. For some reason they have had a reaction. Research is going on in trying to determine why in peanuts, why not in vaccines where a chemical reaction has also taken place.

Lastly, The committee for the safety of medicines are obliged to release information about any possible side effects or major side effects as being related to the drug. You only have to read the side effects for paracetamol! However, when it comes to vaccines, where is the warning for any side effects, other than a GP telling you your child may have a local reaction, I.E at the vaccine site, or a bit feverish. I find this really insulting to parents.

I saw no bias - they said the number of unvacinated shildren is on the increase which means more children come into contact with diseases that could be vacinated against.

OP you have a daughter with specific needs, but the family of the baby in the programme don't have a daughter any more.

I read an article about this and it mentioned that there have been an increased number of whooping cough cases in recent years due to a drop in vaccine uptake. If you look at the figures though there has been no drop in the uptake of the 5-in-1. The increase is actually due to the fact that the vaccine only protects for a few years. I hate the lies.

That's really interesting BM as I had Whooping Cough (diagnosed as "chest Infection" lol) when I was 4 weeks pregnant until I was 12 weeks pregnant or thereabouts. Hideous it was and it was doing the rounds at work, 3 out of four of us in one office had it. I was vaccinated, as were all the others. I like to think it offered my baby better immunity than the vaccine would have done, but it just goes to show that had I come into contact with a four week old, they may have caught it from me, despite my being vaccinated over 30 years ago.

Sashh, is it possible you saw no bias because you are biased the other way? It's very common for this to happen. Had it agreed with my views on the matter, I also would have claimed it was not biased!!

analogue

Yes you may well be right, I am pro vacination and I have a science background.

I don't tent to subscribe to the conspiracy theories, yes doctors are paid to do certain vaccinations (not all) but they would give the vaccines if they were not paid anyway.

Sometimes I want to bang my head (not saying this is the case here) with things said by people with little understanding of science such as the, "don't buy pre prepared salad - it is packed in nitrogen, not air", but 80% of air is made of nitrogen, we breath it in with every breath - we just do not use it for respiration. As something breathed in, at sea level it is fine, not toxic.

Now if you are a deep sea diver it can have serious health implications, it is the cause of 'the bends'.

A lot of the antivacination literature points to something that is dangeroous in one situation and implying it is dangerous in all situations when that is not true.

Analogue I am also pro vaccination, never said I wasn't. This does not detract from what has happened to my daughter. You should read "what the Doctors may or may not tell you about" by Stephanie Cave. And also " a shot in the dark" by Harris Coulter. These books were instrumental in helping The Institute of Medicine reach its conclusions in 1994 that indeed DTP vaccine did cause brain inflammation and that the inflammation was associated with a broad range of long term dysfunctional ( neurological, behavioural, motor, sensory and self care dysfunctional. In 1996 the National Vaccine Centre won a battle to find a safer DTP vaccine and the DTaP Vaccine was released to market.

America and other countries medical professional have accepted that this particular vaccine has been the cause of medical issues in predispossed children. Does this country know better than them? All we want is acknowledgment that this vaccine caused issues in our child. We have sent all out medical records and notes to America and the resounding opinion is that our daughter was vaccine damaged by pre 1996 DTP. This is not a crusade by our family against vaccines as we know that for the vast majority they are safe... You say you bang your head against the wall!!! How do you think we feel knowing this information is out there only for the UK to ignore it

comment about banging head was aimed at Sashh
All the vaccine groups I know are not against vaccines at all, and do not tar all vaccines with the same brush. All we want is the truth

Sashh my wife is a medically trained person and teaches 3rd and 5th year medical students and has done much research in this area. So we have a very knowledgable understanding of vaccines. My wife speaks to senior medial people now and again if topic comes up and yes some are completely dismissive of any vaccine issues, but many also agree with my wife, but would never publically say so, as we all know what happens to medical professionals when they do. You only have to look back through history in this area,

I totally disagree with vaccinations, in contrast with yourself MancTommo. I've spent hours/days/weeks going through the VAERS data from the CDC (12 infant deaths in 11 weeks just this year, anyone?), as well as hearing heartbreaking stories from yourself and many other devastated parents. To me, the 'cure' is worse than the mostly mild diseases but I respect other's right to disagree and think I'm crazy.

My issue with the programme was that it did not refelect the reality. There was not one parent of a child that has been physically and mentally disabled for life by vaccines on that programme, despite the occurance of this, even those recorded, is higher than the incidence of ANY complications from measles. You can claim, sashhh, that this is because of vaccines if you like. I'm not bothered what you think because your previous posts show that your thinking is based on little other than NHS/Governmental/Pharma propaganda and completely fails to address the point of the thread.

My husband was not vaccinated yet I was. He is the healthiest person I know whilst I am riddled with allergies/rashes and other untoward immune issues, despite seeming perfectly healthy! I found out I was pregnant in early February 2011 and within weeks of doing so contracted 'undiagnosed' Whooping Cough, suspected but dx'd as chest infection lol. It was rampant in my work place (occ health) and likely came from one of my colleagues children or grandchildren. My mother risked disablility and death by vaccinating me for something I contracted anyway! Not that she had access to any of this information at the time, despite the news being FULL of stories about this at the time and influencing my mother in laws decision.

Anyway, I digress. The programme was thinly disguised propaganda regardless of which 'side' you are on. To argue otherwise is just ignoring the facts outside of those you promote or believe in. I acknowledge measles can be nasty and acknowledge it can cause death (although unheard of in healthy children with no vitamin defiiciencies) and I also acknowledge babies have died of whooping cough, but as we know, the vaccine for that is completely ineffective over even the medium term so non-vaccinating wouldn't even impact that situation much anyway!

A lot of the antivacination literature points to something that is dangeroous in one situation and implying it is dangerous in all situations when that is not true.

Erm, isn't that what the programme was trying to imply about Measles, Mumps and Rubella? And what all of the news articles and literature implies about these diseases.

Actually, I disagree that this is the case in anti-vax literature. The point in that body of literature is that adverse effects ar eplayed down and can happen to anyone randomly and you can't know before you take your little baby in which way it will turn out, something that pro-vax literature fails to address entirely.

hi i'm new on here and i am anti-vax none of my boys have been immunised the main reason being my freinds baby contracted menigitis from the 5-1 and died, so i know that they are not safe. I also know that the media is biased as alk they do really is make out that they will save everyone when in reality they won't. Sorry to just butt in but i feel very strongly about this topic x

How would one contract meningitis from the 5 in 1 vaccine?

My beautiful 5 yr old DS has autism, I don't know why for certain, but I think that some people are more predisposed to having the condition than others, and then certain factors - environmental, antibiotics, vaccines, nutrition - 'push' them over the edge. He was fully vaccinated but has not had his mmr booster. He is progressing, slowly, and I am worried it might cause a regression. And you know what? Not one of the health professionals I have spoken to will even acknowledge that I have a concern. That's all I'm asking, for one of them to say that they understand I'm concerned. But they sigh, roll their eyes, and, in the case of my GP, snap at me.

The nurse who gives the vaccines even said that I 'might as well give him the vaccine, since he already has it (autism)'. Sensitive. My paediatrician is like a broken record: 'but we wouldn't give it if it wasn't safe'. I tried to explain that I understand millions of people have been vaccinated without any known side-effects, but isn't it possible that some simply cannot tolerate it? Just like millions of people can eat peanuts safely, but some die from eating them? No, she wouldn't budge.

I am pro vaccination but anyone who says that they are "safe" with no possible side effects is talking bollocks. All drugs, if they work, can have side effects. The point is with vaccines they deem the side effects acceptable given the gains. I am not debating the rights/wrongs of that approach. Got myself in a right mess last time and I don't live with a child injured by vaccines to really understand the other side.

Shriekable - groan at their attitudes. Have you thought of getting a titer test for your DS? Maybe he is immune from the first MMR and you can tell your GP to go away?

i think the programe was biased but then i think it was biased in the correct way. we also lost our daughter to whooping cough last year aged 44 days, she was to young to have the vacination. yes maybe to vacine do have side aftects but as posted earlier, i would rather have a child with whatever side affects they ended up with than a small plot of land to go and visit everday.

Hi Darren, I'm so very sorry to hear about your baby girl. What has happened to you is every parent's worst nightmare, regardless of whether they agree with vax or not. Do you know how she came to contract Whooping cough?

Darrenc! I am so so sorry to hear that :(

Hi Darren, I am sorry for your loss. However it's not as easy as saying you would rather have a child with side effects, I.E. exttemely disabled as this can be like a living grief that never ends. Lots of parents also cannot cope with children with disabilities and some don't stay with their family. This is not the case for us but it's just not that simple. As others have said you can still get whooping cough even if you have been vaccinated, so it's unfair to try and blame others for your very difficult situation. The programme was biased and nothing will change mine or many other people's mind. As you have stated, your daughter was not old enough to recieve the vaccine, and whooping cough will always be around despite vaccines so the situation is very difficult. Over time I hope you can move on and although never forget, at least live life to the best you can. Living life with a severely disabled child is extremely difficult and you cannot really measure the two against each other, but I understand why you may think that...

manctommo

i take it you no what its like to lose your child do you? yes i can honestly say i would rather have my child with the most extreme disabilaties than not to have her at all, and until you no what it is like to turn off a machine that is keeping your child alive as she looks pleadingly into your eyes, you think just because she is no longer here that i am no longer living a grief that WILL end? did you get so celebrate easter and buy your child eggs or things, well all i can buy for my daughter is a headstone.