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To not let dd have the HVP vaccination?

999 replies

DogGoneMad · 22/09/2011 22:20

Dh and I really disagree on this.

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 02/10/2011 19:35

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mathanxiety · 02/10/2011 19:52

She didn't actually say what her DD's alleged reaction consisted of -- no way to know if it was a headache, a high fever, or paralysis, seizures.

Actually, the scenario sounded very generic, made up, and nothing more than an attempt to advertise the existence of the hotline, which is mentioned 8 times by my reckoning, and whip up hysteria about gardasil.

The spectre of compulsory vaccination is raised, the suggestion is made that there are far more alleged victims than those reported (it's very anti-gummint in other words, very tea party, NRA, anti-Washington looney fringe in its tone and message.)

W6mum · 02/10/2011 19:59

here - you can debate this with your husband (assuming gardasil is on offer)
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting system - info from the CDC

Reports to VAERS Following Gardasil®
As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious.

Non-serious adverse event reports
VAERS defines non-serious adverse events as those other than hospitalization, death, permanent disability, or life-threatening illness.

The vast majority (92%) of the adverse events reports following Gardasil® vaccination have included fainting, pain, and swelling at the injection site (the arm), headache, nausea, and fever. Syncope (fainting) is common after injections and vaccinations, especially in adolescents. Falls after fainting may sometimes cause serious injuries, such as head injuries, which can be prevented by closely observing the person for 15 minutes after vaccination.

Serious adverse event reports
Any VAERS report that indicated hospitalization, permanent disability, life-threatening illness, congenital anomaly or death is classified as serious. As with all VAERS reports, serious events may or may not have been caused by the vaccine.

Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS)
Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) has been reported after vaccination with Gardasil® . GBS is a rare neurologic disorder that causes muscle weakness. It occurs in 1-2 out of every 100,000 people in their teens. A number of infections have been associated with GBS. There has been no indication that Gardasil® increases the rate of GBS above the rate expected in the general population, whether or not they were vaccinated.

Blood Clots
There have been some reports of blood clots in females after receiving Gardasil®. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors.

Deaths
As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender. Thirty two of the total death reports have been confirmed and 36 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. A death report is confirmed (verified) after a medical doctor reviews the report and any associated records. In the 32 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine and some reports indicated a cause of death unrelated to vaccination.

W6mum · 02/10/2011 20:08

ok done the maths...
that's 0.05% reporting an adverse event post the vaccine (DTP is much higher, 1 in 15 in some studies)

of 100 reporting an adverse event, 8 will be serious

ArthurPewty · 02/10/2011 20:21

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Mathewbellamyismyman · 02/10/2011 20:46

Leonie ... so you dare to disbelieve the hundred of doctors who say that vaccines are safe? You choose to believe one or two anecdotes in a woo magazine?

Leonie, do you have personal experience of vaccine damage? Otherwise I struggle to understand how you'd believe anecdotes from strangers rather than scientific evidence.

PIMSoclock · 02/10/2011 21:02

Leonie, adverse events can be reported by anyone, even patients. This change was made so that adverse events would be objectively reported.
10% is a made up number, you give me some objective proof that events are under reported. If they are, we only have ourselves to blame as WE CAN ALL REPORT THEM!
anti vax propaganda from you fb page is not helpful. The reason? It reports, with great emotional bias and lack objective evidence. They play on fear and emotional blackmail to affect peoples decisions rather than using all the scientific evidence avaliable.
They are too quick to imply a causal relationship between two variables when the information simply shows a week correlation at best.

Please try and make sure the info you share is based on the best objective scientific evidence available.
Horror stories lack evidence to support their claims and create fear unnecessarily.
This is dangerous

ArthurPewty · 02/10/2011 22:18

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ArthurPewty · 02/10/2011 22:25

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PIMSoclock · 02/10/2011 22:39

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PIMSoclock · 02/10/2011 22:45

And just for the record, we clearly have very different definitions of what constitutes good science

It is irrelevant if I have a child who is vaccine damaged or not. I lost a friend to this preventable cancer. That is why I think people need to have access to the best possible information on the vaccines/ treatments available so they can make the best decisions they can.

ArthurPewty · 02/10/2011 22:52

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PIMSoclock · 02/10/2011 23:08

I am trained to be able to read and critique research papers including pathphysiology ones.
I think sharing my knowledge to help people identify good quality research is really helpful on a thread like this. Research can sometime seem better than it is or make claims it is not adequately powered to do so.
The evidence I have linked and posted demonstrating the safety and efficacy of the vaccine is high quality reliable evidence.
Your links are not. If you can provide some science supporting your claims I'd be happy to read and examine the quality of it.
I think you are letting emotional bias cloud what you are actually arguing for.

I am happy to give a personal opinion if asked, but at then end of the day it is irrelevant. The facts speak for themselves and show that the risks of HPV and cervical cancer are significantly greater than the risk of minor adverse effect associated with the vaccine.
Faced with that evidence, people should be able to make and understand an informed decision

BustersOfDoom · 02/10/2011 23:37

Quite frankly being the parent of a child who survived cancer I am amazed that anyone would go to such lengths to reject a jab that could possibly spare their child such a terrible illness for fear of side effects.

My DC's cancer was not preventable. There are no injections to give any level of possible prevention. But as treatment he had neurosurgery and radiotherapy both of which had side effects which affected him for many years. He is very, very lucky to still be here and even more so to have graduated from Uni this year.

Had we been offered a vaccine for the biggest killer of children in the UK today - brain tumours -though there may be risks I'd have said yes. Had I been offered a vaccine against cervical cancer -though there may be risks - when I was 15 I'd have said yes.

I guess that anyone saying they would not give permission for the jab needs to think what they would say if their daughter ever comes to them saying they have been diagnosed with cervical cancer. How would you explain why you refused them the jab?

PigletJohn · 03/10/2011 00:42

I just love that Natural News website

Especially the bit that says

"Tom Gambill
I have the evidence; that the HPV vaccine is specifically designed to STERILIZE the girls and now they want young boys to take the vaccine also. It has HcG to cause miscarriages and to sterilize the youth before they are adults. I can provide all the evidence you need"

Barmy

ArthurPewty · 03/10/2011 07:26

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PIMSoclock · 03/10/2011 08:10

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juuule · 03/10/2011 08:29

PIMS "All doctors take the hippocratic oath."

Apparently they don't have to anymore.

And there is an updated version.

"Many people think that doctors still swear the Hippocratic Oath. It is not compulsory but in fact many medical schools now hold a ceremony where graduating doctors do swear an updated version."

www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Ideals-and-the-Hippocratic-Oath.htm

ArthurPewty · 03/10/2011 09:04

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PIMSoclock · 03/10/2011 09:29

38?? That's 14 years of life more than my best friend got. I've never used 'fear' to sell vaccines. I don't sell any healthcare.
You on the other hand have been all to quick to employ fear as a tactic when you have no other credible evidence to support your claims.
Thanks for your permission to keep providing my ability to critique the research and call it for what it is, in the case of your links unobjective sensationalist journalism.
Enjoy your conference, I'm off to do my job to the best of my ability. I have spent 11 years of my life continually studying and learning so I cam help and heal to the best of my ability with the most up to date evidenced based practice possible
I'm not sure why you think the medical profession is one big conspiracy theory but it's not healthy
Juule, I like the new oath and all medics do make it at their graduation.
Better than the oath is the code of professional conduct they adhere to and the clinical governance standards they work to

ArthurPewty · 03/10/2011 09:30

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PIMSoclock · 03/10/2011 09:40

Your arguments are weak and your evidence is poor

Mathewbellamyismyman · 03/10/2011 17:18

Leonie But berating you for believing in dangerous nonsensical theories may encourage someone who is nervous of vaccinating their child to do some research in proper medical journals/ websites and so not believe the madness in publications such as natural news!!

PIMSoclock · 03/10/2011 19:41

The quote from pigletjohn is just terrifying. Simply because of it's ridiculous unfounded and unsubstantiated information that it is claiming to be truth!!
This is the very reason why I think you links are nothing more than dangerous propaganda.
I have had the vaccine and am now pregnant. Wonder how old Tony would explain that.

PIMSoclock · 03/10/2011 19:45

Sorry that sounds like pigletjohn wrote it, obviously I meant the quote pj provided from leonies website!!