To not let dd have the HVP vaccination?

[DogGoneMad]

Dh and I really disagree on this.

Bela thankyou. I have a question too.

1. different types of cancer - some develop more quickly. These are unlikely to be picked up with screening.

Is this because of the recommended current intervals? I'm planning to tell my daughter to have them more frequently than two-three years currently recommended.

Blueberties having screening more frequently brings a small % increase in numbers of cancers prevented.
The 'not being detected' well the screening interval is less to with this as the nature/behaviour of certain cancers. E.g. neuroendocrine derived cancers (also known as small cell) tend to behave differently, they are very rare.
The screening programme has been organised on the basis of how the majority of disease behaves - it would not be cost effective to base it on the most rare events. And yes I do understand there are people who are the rare events but as I've said previously screening programmes although they benefit the individuals involved have to be constructed on the basis of the population at risk.
On weevil's thread I linked to some info about screening programmes.
Individual choice can be to have screening more frequently but it is arguable that if you can prevent actually getting the more risky types of HPV in the first place then that's potentially better?

dog are you letting your daughter have the vaccination?
Frankly i think it is just plain silly not to.
When you think of the percentage of people affected by cancer against the percentage of people who are affected by vaccine damage, or what they claim is vaccine damage. Sadly many peole have trouble weighing up the risks especially when you factor in an irrational fear of vaccinations and of course the fear of their daughters becoming promiscuous overnight after having the dreaded hpv vaccine.
The only thing i can understand is the worry that people would be less likely to go for smears but as long as people are educated this shouldnt be an issue.

People, not peole. :)

Bela, couldn't agree more. Belt and braces approach, vaccinating to preventing the 70%+ cases caused by worst strains oh HPV and screening regularly to catch anything else

Sorry, Bela, I'm extrapolating about multiple partners and integration; I'm sure it used to be said that having multiple partners significantly increased your risk of cervical cancer, and since the line now seems to be that it makes no difference in terms of acquiring the virus, it seemed that integration must be the missing link. I'm aware however that many people have had cervical cancer after having very few sexual partners, and I mean no disrespect at all to people who have had the cancer.

It's just that it certainly used to be said that anything other than monogamy increased your risk. I think monogamous Amish communities were completely free of cervical cancer, for example.

Lemon, it's not so much about monogamy. The Amish community would have no sex before marriage or outside marriage so two virgins would be unlikely to contract HPV
however if one person sleeps with another. That person may have slept with multiple partners whose multiple partners may have had sex with others
So having sex with just one person can still expose you to a much wider risk

WHO guide on setting up cervical screening programmes (from 2006).
Has guidance about age at commencing screening and intervals. It recommends any new screening programme not starting until 30+ and any existing programme not screening

Found an image of cells at screening magnification normal ones here. There are about 10-15,000 of these on one sample and perhaps as few as 10 abnormal cells.
these are (still normal but more tricky!)
Just wanted to give people an idea of what cervical screening is actually like to do!
Needless to say, everyone wears glasses.

And could I ask another thing? In the vaccine will be an inactivated form of HPV strains 16, 18, 45 and 32. The inactivated form will stop you catching the active forms of those viruses, at least for the next five years, however sexually active you are. You may well still catch any of the other strains, but they are considerably less likely to integrate and result in cancer. And although you can still pass on the other strains of HPV, you won't pass on 16,18, 45 or 32.

Is that right? Can you have more than one strain of HPV at once?

Gardasil protects against 6, 11, 16 and 18
(6 and 11 cause 90% of genital warts)
Cevarix protects against 16, 18 and gives some protection against 35 and 41

Although there are over 100 strains of HPV only 15 are known to affect the anal/vaginal area

The vaccines provide protection through antibodies
In normal diseases that the body can become immune too, immunity it's developed through exposure tp the disease. The immune system creates antibodies that recognise the virus or bacteria and neutralises it before it infects the cells of the body

In vaccines antibodies are introduced that will essentially give immunity without exposure to the disease
Hepatitis b vaccine works in a similar way
Does that make sense?

Yes people can have multiple HPV type infections. I would have to go off and have a re-read of ARTISTIC or HAART to check the incidence though. A quick search gives this study (I've only skimmed it mind!) which has 10% of 20-29y/o with multiple HPV types.

PIMS I'm not quite sure why you've reposted that as it doesn't answer Lemonbalm's question?

There has been some discussion about cross prevention to other HPV types (the Stanley presentation has a diagram of HPV families) and this may add additional benefits.

Ok, I'm done for today. :)

PIMS, the vaccines don't 'introduce' antibodies. They encourage the body to produce its own antibodies.

Thanks for your posts Bela - they've been really informative. Goodnight! :)

Bela thanks - thanks I have more q's but am required in the kitchen. Tomorrow will be back. Ta.

Bm, that's only true for live vaccines , where a diluted version of the disease is given so the body is able to produce it's own antibodies by recognising and dealing with a dilute version of the disease
Hepatis b and HPV are not live vaccines

explanation of different types of vaccine and their mechanism of action

No PIMS, it's not just live vaccines. Inactivated vaccines eg. Polio work the same way.

"Vaccines contain extracts or inactivated forms of bacteria or viruses that cause disease. These altered forms of the organisms stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against them, but don't actually cause disease themselves. The antibodies produced remain in the body so that if the organism is encountered naturally, the immune system can recognise it and attack it, thus preventing it from causing disease."

"Cervarix contains inactivated extracts from two different types of the human papilloma virus: types 16 and 18. HPV types 16 and 18 are responsible for approximately 70 per cent of cervical cancer cases. Cevarix stimulates the immune system to produce antibodies against these types of the virus "

Did you read the article you linked to PIMS? It does say quite clearly that inactivated vaccines also produce active immunity.

Bm, that's not how ALL vaccines work.
Follow the link

It also said vaccines can be passive,
By giving pre made antibodies

Happy to say HPV is inactivated, but ur wrong to suggest that vaccines ALL stimulate the immune system. They don't

that's interesting abou tHep B

however

"In vaccines antibodies are introduced that will essentially give immunity without exposure to the disease"

impllies that's how all vaccines operate and particlarly that's how Cervarix operates

Yes PIMS but the hpv vaccines aren't that type of vaccine. You clearly stated that inducing antibody production is only true for live vaccines and that is not the case. Inactivated vaccines also induce immunity. The vaccines providing passive immunity only provide short term protection (3-6 months). Again, it is mentioned in the document you linked to. You really should read it. It's very interesting.

Makes me feel a bit sick, though.

As an aside - how about Xavier Bosch (author Bela linked to) as a name? What does that conjure up for you?