Advice on anorexia - any help/comments appreciated

[LudwigvanBeethoven]

Hi, I am new to Mumsnet and I'm only sorry I'm posting on this subject as my first posting.

I'll be as brief as poss - I'm in my mid 40s and have two daughters aged 6 and 3 - I was anorexic, not too badly so, in my early 20s but it has now returned. I am concerned at the distress it causes my husband, who is the light of my life, and my two beautiful girls - I fear that at some point soon they're going to pick up on it, but I really cannot force myself to do the evening meal thing any more - it is causing me so much distress and panic. In my view I am pretty overweight - all this BMI stuff is only a guideline, as is the weight to height ratio - I am 5ft 8ins and weigh two pounds under 8 stone in the morning and 8 stone 2 in the evening. Seriously, if you saw me you would say that I am not underweight and really I am overweight - I carry too much weight that really is not necessary.

Yet, my views on my weight are at odds with my family and it's this distress that concerns me. At the moment I feel that I am condemned to a life of being fat just so that I don't cause any problems. Needless to say this is doing my head in. I am booked to see a specialist counsellor next week but I have to say that my dealings with counselling in the past has not been great, so I have warned the counsellor I'm seeing of that.

It was the visit to my GP that gave me a bit of a shock. I went to him recently and said that another issue I had was related to the fact that I carried too much weight. now, a while back he had asked me if I had always "been that slight" and I had told him about the anorexia of 25 years ago. So, on this recent visit he got incredibly upset and said "what are we going to do? are we going back to the anorexia again?" I wasn't really able to give a coherent reply other than that it might help to get a psychiatric assesment rather than "prescribe something to lift you out of this" which is what he offered also.

I'm in a bit of quandery here - so any advice or comments would be so much appreciated. This is unbelievably selfish, but all I want to do is to be thin and all I can see is how fat and pathetic I am as person and frankly a really rubbish mother if being thin is more important than their well being.

If I can clarify, I agree that anorexia isn't "self-harm" in the way we normally think of it. I think it does invovle harming, or rather hurting your self. By self I don't just mean the body (as in regular "self-harm") I mean the whole person, who you are and who you could be. Anorexia takes away oppurtunities to enjoy life (even to live at all) and makes it harder to function.

I'm not surprised that people disagree with my assertion that anorexia isn't an illness. I think this is an assumption,backed up to be sure by every HCP and media mention of eating disorders. Littlefish: you say "of course" anorexia's an illness but why "of course"?

I write this not to be flippant or to deny the suffering, including physical suffering, that eating disorders can cause. For years I let my anorexia continue while wishing desperately for treatment that would help me "get better" and "recover". I went from doctor to doctor to psychiatrist to counsellor, took drugs and went to hospital. Even though I would say on the outside I was fine, I believed inside that I did have a terrible illness and only approriate medical care would save me. I had a hands-off-the-steering-wheel approach.

I now know that what i was suffering from wasn't disease but an inability to cope with life. The symptoms I suffered were caused by lack of calories and nutrients, not organic disease. I didn't need drugs, I needed food. And I didn't need to modify my thinking, I needed skills adn tools to make life easier. I think the discourse around anorexia is far too medical, with "symptoms" and "treatment" and "prognosis". I think an educational approach is far more effective. If hospitalisation is needed it shoud be decoupled from psychological support and education.

Again, when I say that it's not an illness I'm not arguing against professional involvement in recovery, in fact it can be essential. But it is an adjunct to the hard work that must be done by the sufferer herself.
I know people will disagree. My views are largely based on my own experience, which is probably atypical, but not , I believe, unique.

I understand what you are saying about self help and attitude but I do think it's become a semantic argument when you talk about it not being an illness.

What is there to 'recover' from if it isn't an illness...you can't recover from an inability.
I guess it's important to find the root of the problem, of course it is, but you are on dangerous ground when you begin to suggest that someone with anorexia can cure herself.

Some of us can and have done so. I did. No one else could, for sure. It was down to me, using the tools I had within me, and those I was given, lent or taught.

Not everyone is so fortunate. It isn't about food being all you need. I knew that perfectly well, I wasn't stupid. But that's a top down approach...like the guy I knew who made a joke about 'when your knees are fatter than your thighs, eat cake'. Ha ha. So easy isn't it, to get better, if you just eat.

This sadly fails to address the mental health issues which nearly everyone with this disorder suffers from.

If I could have just eaten I would have done so, and indeed once I found a way to conquer or tolerate the awful physical feelings that came with eating after four years of starvation, and the dreadful fear that was even worse, I did grasp food with both hands, metaphorically. That was when I became able to get better.

It was never just a question of 'have something to eat'. And to suggest it is i find really condescending...people with anorexia normally aren't that dim!

Sorry, I know youre not trying to simplify it that strongly...what I mean is it IS an illness. It's a mental illness. Not a physical, pathological one but it's a disorder of the mind and that's what causes the trouble normally.

I never for one minute thought a doctor could make me put on weight without a feeding tube or similar. But a counsellor with some facts and reassurances and proper truths, well, that was what I wanted.

I just couldn't trust anyone to be right, to make me feel safe enough to eat. It wasn't ever really about food, tbh.

thanks for all hte interesting discussion on this - the mental illness vs the physical - this is exactly what I'm talking about. I understand from the academic point of view that anorexia or an eating disorder is not about food but a coping mechanism for something else that has made one feel unsafe. In my case some physical boundries were crossed between me and my father when I was a teenager BUT and this is the thing that I really have an issue with now with my counsellor, is that this is not the reason I have a problem with eating - I am in need of losing weight and for some reason my body refuses to do that. You can therefore imagine the dilemma I#m in at the moment over the issue of having to face the prospect of eating. This week my counsellor has asked that i consider and try to eat breakfast and one item of food for lunch which at the moment just isn't possible -I know for a fact that I will put on weight. So a physical problem overriding any mental issue. It's enough to drive anyone mad.
I think what unnerves me the most is the role of the counsellor - I feel scared of her now and that she is playing me somewhat. I'm sure I fit in to the behaviour patterns of someone who has issues with eating/food but I'm feeling threatened by the procedures that try to address it. Can't be an easy task for the counsellor I guess as every patient must be slightly different but this change in tactic has really got to me, to the point that I cannot sleep (I have been awake since 2.30am today), so I have resolved that I must talk to the counsellor at the next session as to how I feel. I hope this is the right thing to do?

personally - and this is another controversial opinion, based on what was true for me, so please understand I'm stating experience, not fact here - I think anorexia is an addiction. Yes it is a mental illness, yes it comprises of a physical problem too, but the act of starving yourself isn't what is addictive. The feeling of being in control of something is.

An alcoholic controls their environment by changing how they feel about it, by using alcohol. An addict medicates through stress to change how they feel. An anorexic starves to control something and change how they feel, a bulimic purges to control... it's not a superficial 'likes to be in control' it's a searing, endless, utterly compulsive and irrational NEED to control something. I know that for me, being anorexic put me into a mental state where I was literally walking around in a bubble. Yes, I could see other people were upset, and wanted me to eat, and wanted to break through. Yes it was sad that my parents/partner etc didn't like it, but it was like looking through a pane of glass onto another side. Nothing they did/said or suggested could break my cycle of addiction. As long as I continued not to eat, to focus on losing weight and to get high off the control that came when I saw the numbers go down... I was feeding an addiction as powerful and unstoppable as any heroin addicts. And as dangerous.

IMHO - and an opinion is all it is - I overcame anorexia simply because I became willing to quit. Pure and simple. Not 'will you try and eat a bit of breakfast' quit. Not, 'could you have a roll with your soup?' quit, not 'can you maintain a minimum healthy weight' quit. Absoultely, 100% I will not weigh myself, or calorie count or restrict AT ALL quit. No negotiation. An alcoholic doesn't get to only stop drinking spirits... they quit all alcohol. A heroin addict doesn't still get to take cocaine at the weekend and be A-OK. I don't get to miss breakfast, weigh myself in the morning, force myself into a size 6 and still function as a human being either. It's all or nothing. Life, or death. Simple as that.

I know not many people who haven't had anorexia will agree with me. Many people who DO have anorexia will be wildly offended by me. However, I don't give a bloody fart, because I am here today, mother to a son I was told I could never conceive, in a relationship that isn't built on lies, having come home from a barbeque I would never have gone to in a million years, wearing clothes that fit me without labels in them.

I don't label me either. I'm not anorexic, I'm not ill, I'm not 'struggling to recover' or negotiating with a disease. It's taken 4 years to get here, but it was well worth the journey. Gloria, your therapist will be there to help you work through your issues, and it will be hard - very hard - but if you waste your precious time with her negotiating over whether you will eat a sandwich or not, you are wasting a very important opportunity to be well. Don't talk about food anymore than you absolutely have to, because believe me, it's NOT about the food. Control is addictive as hell, and no matter what anyone comes along and says, I know that I was trapped by an obsessive and compulsive cycle of controlling my emotions, my relationships and my weight. When I let go of that, life happened. Messy, unpredictable, scary, funny, wonderful life. I hope you can see hope in my story, and you dont mind me sharing it with you. I didn't mean to overtake your thread I just wanted you to know I understand how you feel, but it can and does get better. Be hopeful x

doh not Gloria... Ludvig... sorry!!

wow, thanks for this insighful reply -I kind of get what you mean about eating disorders being an addiction to control. The feeling of power I have over not not eating is exhilarating but with the genuine outcome tnat I won't gain any weight. For instance, tonight I had some salad and breasd (well the crusts from my daughter's bread) and 2 glasses of wine, so I worked out in the gym for an hour in the hope that I would negate all the calories as weight gain is not an option. I agree that it would be good to steer the conversation the the counsellor towards non-food related issues. I've had about 7 or 8 sessions sofar and I wonder if the counsellor is just getting a bit tired of me. I don't know how long this process of counselling is going to last?
Thanks again though for your very helpful advice.

truthfully, it will take as long as it takes... it took me about 10mo of weekly dietician and therapy work to reach a place where I knew I could do it without that kind of support. But it took about 2 years to 100% click with my decision to just not engage with anorexia.

I had to stop calling her Ana, like the illness was my friend. I had to stop romanticising my relationship with my eating disorder. Nothing good came from being ill - no matter how much I convinced myself life was better when I was thin. I was cold, tired, asexual, irritable, lonely, deceitful, sad, depressed, tearful, tired, tired, tired. So tired.

The combination of therapy, support groups and eating all came together about 18months after I first sought help, and I remember it so well!! I remember the first night I slept a WHOLE NIGHT THROUGH! I remember when I woke up happy!! when my feet were actually too warm to wear thick woolen socks to bed in summer! when I got up in the morning, and I wasn't desperate to get back under the duvet and hide, or desperately pushing myself to get up and go do my crunches in the dark.

It took another six months to stop feeling wobbly about my decision, and had regular 'what if' days. But I talked about them, I asked for help, and I learned to laugh about it. Now I am quite affectionately fond of the old me, who was without a doubt a bit mental :) I'm grateful too, for all the things I learned about myself, and all the people I met along the way. I realised nobody is perfect at all. We all struggle, we all wish things were different, that we were somehow better. Wanting/wishing to improve isn't abnormal, but hurting myself to get there was. I know that I'm a better person for having been ill, and gotten better though. I know that you can turn this around as well and one day you'll be able to tell your DC's that you KNOW that they can do anything.Because their mummy overcameana too, and if she can do it, they can do anything they set their minds to as well... good luck :)

Ludwig, I am going to c&p something you wrote and I hope you don't mind.

'In my case some physical boundries were crossed between me and my father when I was a teenager BUT and this is the thing that I really have an issue with now with my counsellor, is that this is not the reason I have a problem with eating - I am in need of losing weight and for some reason my body refuses to do that.'

I've no idea if it's anything whatsoever to do with your father. But I'm wondering why is it that you feel you need to lose weight?

I'm still thin and people say too thin but I tend to ignore/disbelieve them...my weight is Ok, not perfect but manageable (and when it creeps up a bit too far for my liking, I try not to think about it until it falls off again - it varies with my life and what's going on emotionally).

But even when I am getting really skinny (in my own perception) there are still bits of fat and areas I don't really like much. I am a funny shape. I think objectively I'm ugly when naked. But then a vast majority of people are and it doesn't stop me from loving them...with their imperfections.
It's more important to me that I can wear the kind of clothes I like, and feel I am expressing who I am through my clothes and looking quite nice to other people and to myself.
I blank out the naked image and concentrate on whether I feel comfortable in the clothes I'm wearing. And often I do.

I know I don't need to lose weight because I have enough control automatically, at the moment at leats (and ongoing for many years now) to know I'm not going to go mad and reach 20 stone...I remain around 8-8.5 stone, sometimes up to 9.5 but that's unusual and it comes down again eventually without my really trying.

It's never going to be perfect. You won't ever be perfectly happy with how you appear. But it's learning to live with that I think. There will be people who look worse and people who look better. But once you feel more at ease with who you are inside, all that sort of disappears and you can be very free from your weight. Some of my best friends are much fatter than I am, some are much thinner...I still love them because it's about overriding the weight issue and feeling what you are inside.

Thanks Overcameana and Gloriavanderbilt for these last two replies - I cannot tell you how helpful you are all being - I have told very few people about my situation - my husband of course, and he is great and really supportive - plus two other friends but most definitely not my parents. I live overseas from them anyway, so there's no risk of seeing them. So, to have this on line support is so helpful, especially from such experienced and articulate people

Glloria - my counsellor thinks that the issue with my father was relevant to my current situation because I didn't have anyone to talk to about it at the time, wasn't able to articulate it at that age anyway and I have used body image and food as form of coping mechanism. BUt, as far as I am concerned I would say that it really isn't to do with that - it's true that it was a bit traumatising and that it still upsets me to think about what he did and how stupid he was, but I think my current situation has gone beyond that, so yes Gloria, I wonder if it does have anything to do with it.

I am n.ot happy with the weight I am and yes, maybe I'll never be happy with it, my counsellor says that I will nver consider my weight to be low enough. As you say Gloria, it's about managing it and learning to live with it and you are clearly doing this, which is something I really should aspire to!

Overcameana - thanks again - I kind of guessed that this will be a long rpocess, the counsellor warned that it would take a while. What I would give to have one night's decent sleep! Mind you, I have two small children so sleep really isn't the same again, but I don't really mind that too much.

I think what I'm struggling with is the idea that this is something I will be havnig to deal with for the rest of my life - the idea that I am having to do something I don't want to do in order to stay healthy and that is to eat. I know that perfectionism is an inherent part of my personality and that life is not perfect and no person is perfect. I'm just not sure I'm going to be able to cope with these sessions with the counsellor and wonder if I should take a break for a while - did you do this at all during the two year period you underwent? It might just help to consolidate all the things I have to think about.

It may not be my place tp say this but it would make a lot of sense to me to connect your father's behaviour with what you are going through in one of two ways:

firstly if you manage to be perfect enough, it's a sock in the face to him for devaluing you in that way, and it's also it means you can't possibly have been affected by it, which is deffo a coping mechanism

secondly if you really feel so minimally about what he did to you, perhaps the sheer scale of betrayal and anger coming from that is being directed at yourself and your own body rather than legitimately at the person who did it to you...I can definitely understand this too. Impossible and unthinkable that the person you are meant to trust above all others could do something so massive to hurt you, and therefore you turn it all in on yourself and rationalise that you are so far from perfect that it was all your own fault. You get to keep your love for your father and in the process destroy your own body and life.

I hope this is something you will take at face value, ie it's a theory, a guess, as to why your counsellor is linking the two things. Most people don't have an experience like that to cope with...it's unusual so natural that she would connect it with your being so unhappy.

I am so, so sorry you are going through this. Bloody horrible for you. xx

"I think what I'm struggling with is the idea that this is something I will be havnig to deal with for the rest of my life - the idea that I am having to do something I don't want to do in order to stay healthy and that is to eat. I know that perfectionism is an inherent part of my personality and that life is not perfect and no person is perfect."

I find this really interesting. I am overweight. I have been significantly more overweight, but have now lost 4 stone, so half way to my final goal. One of the things that has helped me deal with, and come to terms with this weightloss journey is the recognition of the fact that I will have to deal with my relationship with food for my whole life. I will always want to eat too much, and will need to monitor that, and deny some parts of my nature. I am the opposite side of the eating coin to you.

Interestingly, I had always assumed that people at a healthy weight just stay that way. I was greatly heartened talking to a friend of mine who has always been a healthy weight, and she was telling me how she has to work at it, exercise regularly, monitor what she eats etc. Somehow, that seemed fairer to me!

Also, if people at a healthy weight have to work at it, then I can be one of those people, rather than it being inevitable that I will never be like that, if you see what I mean.

This has been a really interesting discussion for me to read. It all helps to try and understand a bit more about my mother.

Good luck to all of you.

Your story too littlefish is very interesting, thankyou for posting it.

The crux of it to me is not minding not being perfect...it isn't about getting there, it's about accpeting that you probably never will, and ignoring the non perfect part of you.
It's when you have an absolutely urgent need to be perfect that you can probably start looking below the surface as to what is driving that need. It's not human nature to have that need.

It's human nature to want to survive...I think realising that long term I was going to die if I didn't just get over myself (in the nicest possible way!) and do whatever it took to get back on the conveyor belt, was pivotal for me.

No one was going to do it for me and I could carry on dying at a fairly rapid pace or I could say fuck it, just really fuck this for a game of soldiers, and go the opposite way. I chose to turn round and walk the opposite way and once i had chosen this I wished I'd done it sooner as it wasn't as awful as I had thought...it was actually not a big deal. I must have dealt with what was the truly big deal already, to get to that point.

thanks Gloria (and Littlefish for that positive post) - it's very insightful what you say (sorry for bad English) about my father's behaviour - he was such a perfectionist as a child and still is even in his 80s - and for him to do what he did was far from perfect really. It probably did make me kind of blank it from my mind at that time and in simple terms decided that it must have been that caused what he did. However, I would instinctively NEVER leave my two daughters with him on their own, and yet I would with my father-in-law. My counsellor is very clear that the two issues are connected and that unfortunately I have kept it under wraps for the last 20 years.

I should feel anger I suppose, it's an emotion my counsellor has mentioned a coupld of times but I don't really identify with that feeling. I asked my husband if he thought me prone to anger but he said no and that in fact I was quite placid. He also thinks that part of my problem at the moment is that I have too much time on my hands and that I've made this problem for myself.

Gloria - so glad that you have been able to see and make those choices - I know that life is about being aware of them - I think the reason I'm in a quandary at the moment as to whether to continue with the counsellor is that I'm learning about the process from an academic standpoint but don't want to personally engage with it for fear of gaining weight. Sounds so simplistic and pathetic as I write this. Aaargh - it's driving me mad. Just don't want to be wasting the counsellor's time or mine I guess. All I want is to lose weight - even if my period starts, light and all as they are, I feel as though I have failed. It really is so hard to separate the mental from the physical.

Can you explain why you want to lose weight when all the medical evidence tells you that you will be/already are an unhealthy weight and that being at that low weight will put your current and future health at risk?

littlefish -my weight is 7 and a half stone and I am 5ft 8ins - but looking at me you would see that I carry extra weight on my abdomen and legs - they're pretty gross to look at - I actually feel sorry for my husband! I full recognise that I will never have the body of a supermodel or that my shape will be perfect but I do need to shift that weight that I have - I do exercise for an hour to an hour & a half a day so that the focus just isn't on food - but it is the food that obviously leads to the weight gain. I have just had my bloods done and they are fine and also my dexa-scan for bone density last year was also good, so healthwise I'm looking fine - just for my own liking I am in need of losing the weight and I can't seem to. It's so distressing.

I've just had a quick look and you BMI is equivalent to 15.3. Anything under 18.5 is considered underweight. I just don't see any way that anyone could look at you and say that you are carrying any extra weight. I don't doubt that you think it is there, but I would say that it is simply your perception of what you actually look like.

I saw my mum look at herself in the mirror with obvious disgust when weighing only slightly less than you, and measuring the same height, when I could look at her and see every vertebrae in her back, rib in her body and sinew in her neck. She considered herself to be overweight even when she knew she was in danger of being sectioned.

This is what I mean Ludwig. There will be places on your body that hold on to fat whether you are incredibly underweight or normal. You can only get rid of these bits if you kill yourself. They will still be there however thin you manage to get...that's what a human body is, it has fat in it. You can't get rid of all the fat without being dead.

Sorry there must be some other way, some other thing you can focus on to make this seem less of a threat. I've been there, well in similar ways, not with my anorexia but in other areas. Where I needed it to be perfect so badly that I would lie awake all the time and hate myself if I failed.

It doesn't get you anywhere. It's the worst sort of navel gazing. It doesn't make you a better person because the only thing motivating you is fear, it's like going back into your own womb where this is the only thing you have to worry about, so you can forget your responsibilities and impact on other people, you can forget about everything else, in short it's an opt out, it's selfish and it's all about you.

I think it happens because you cannot cope with anything else, it's a passive way of being utterly self centred because something in you needs to be selfish. You've been used. You're angry. It's the ultimate passive aggression especially if you let it go so far as to die.

'You' meaning me, you, anyone in the same boat. I realised how childish I was being one day and that was a horrible feeling, I was literally behaving like a baby. I hope you can come through this. Making fat the only thing you really care about is not the answer.

oh God, Gloria, is that right, that your body holds on to fat somewhere, regardless of how thin other parts of your body are? I guess it makes sense but that's mighty depressing to hear.

I agree totally that this is one of the most self-absorbing, narcissistic illnesses which of course piles on the guilt, well it does for me anyway, and particularly as you rightly point out that making being fat the only thing to worry about not being the answer. It's just that I genuinely feel that I need to lose weight in addition to any other control issues that I might have relating to my past. I feel that I have forgiven my father for what he did - he was just an idiot and probably going through some problems himself - it was shortly after what he did to me that he started an affair, so clearly there were problems with my parents at that stage. I don't blame them for that - no couple and no parents are perfect, so that issue for me is not something I feel I need to address any more, but maybe I'm wrong.

Interesting to call this illness the ultimate passive aggression - I think that that's true as it ties in with my lack of feeling of anger. I think that is something that I might discuss with my counsellor in the next session. At the moment all I can think about is how to handle the counselling sessions - not control them, but just how to best use them - I find it really nerve-wracking to be honest - it's like going on stage to do a play...
Again, it's so good to talk to people online who have gone through this and come out the other side - thanks.

p.s. - the other thing I have thinking about is the definition of "fat" and "thin" and what I view these as being. I suppose, thinking out loud here, that being thin is where one can see just a covering of the skeleton, ie so that the bones are visible, as in my view they should be but with some skin, muscle, tissue and a little fat to cover them without them being obscured.. Fat means that the bones and muscles are obscured and there is no definition to the parts of the body and that too much flesh is in the way of the basic human structure. Sounds a bit clinical, I know. Am I way off here?

Found it interesting that you compare anorexia to an addiction. It certainly has a lot in common with one.
Ludwig: I agree with Gloria. You body is starving so is "hanging on" to any fat it can, amd also probably water. When you put on weight you'll feel more in proportion. I have a flatter somach now than when I was very thin!
If I can link back to the addiction thoery, I was thinking about this myself. Recovery from an addiction can take years but the act of giving up takes a short time. Like overcameana says you have to make a break. maybe some people can progress by making small changes every day but I think the better appraoch is a pull-off-the-plaster-quickly one. If you increase your intake of food to a normal diet you'll feel like crap for a few days. It'll seem wrong and you'll panic. But this is the best way to kick start your metabolism and get rid of the "holding on to every calorie" feeling. The initial discomfort can be thought of as withdrawal symptoms.

Also calories aren't everything. A normal-ish eating pattern is just as important. I'm sure anyone who put on weight successfully after anorexia will say they did by eating breakfast lunch and dinner, not by gorging on high-calorie food. You mention "the evening meal thing" in your OP. I assume because of your father evening meals in your childhood were stressful affairs.

Even thought anorexia is like an addiction in some ways ( the main symtom needs a fast solution but the psychological work takes years) it differs from addiction in one crucial aspect. Alcoholics and other addicts are advised to stay away from the substance involved for ther rest of their lives and many attend 12 step programmes indefinitey. One counsellor I saw recommended thsi approach to anorexia. My "abstinence" was to be to never go more than four hours without eating (presumably during the daytime) and to let others determine my portion sizes. This was to continue the rest of my life. It was nuts!

There's no need for these measures. Once you're eating a healthy diet with regular meals you'll stop obsessing over diet. Yes, I'm still now probably more body-conscious than a lot of people but it doesn't run my life.

Don't fall into the trap of thinkning that if you sort out your non-food issue with your counsellor the food stuff'll take care of itself. You have to do the work there yourself; your counsellor isn't going to come home and make the dinner for you, or eat your breakfast for you but she can't work with you properly while your brain is locked into survival mode. The changes you must make yourself are the horse and the work you do in therapy is the cart, iyswim.
It's all scary stuff I know and not as simple as I'm making it out to be. Good luck

'I feel that I have forgiven my father for what he did - he was just an idiot and probably going through some problems himself - it was shortly after what he did to me that he started an affair, so clearly there were problems with my parents at that stage. I don't blame them for that - no couple and no parents are perfect, so that issue for me is not something I feel I need to address any more, but maybe I'm wrong.'

Well that's all lovely but you've stuck a great big plaster over the hurt they caused you. It hasn't gone away. It can be terrifying to even consider being angry with your family because they are so essential to you. Also anger can be met with more anger in response (as it was with me/my own mother) so I learned never to show it as it made things much worse for me.

If you don't blame them for causing you all the pain you endured, the betrayal and the anguish, then who can you blame? They may have been good people. They may have intended no harm. But seriously...if your DH was upset about his marriage, would you countenance him abusing your daughter as some weird outlet for his troubles? I think not

The fact remains something really, really awful happened to you and it was perpetrated by someone you had been raised to love and respect. That is massive. I think you have not managed to deal with this, because you're afraid of your own anger and the level of anger you will feel if you allow the floodgates to open. It's hat stops people from long term abusive marriages from leaving...they are terrified of their own feelings that will then be able to come out, you will be sick with anger, you may want to kill him. Anger is hideous and extremely painful but the only way past this without killing yourself is to go through it. You can't control it but you can facilitate having support while you endure it.

'ps. - the other thing I have thinking about is the definition of "fat" and "thin" and what I view these as being. I suppose, thinking out loud here, that being thin is where one can see just a covering of the skeleton, ie so that the bones are visible, as in my view they should be but with some skin, muscle, tissue and a little fat to cover them without them being obscured.. Fat means that the bones and muscles are obscured and there is no definition to the parts of the body and that too much flesh is in the way of the basic human structure. Sounds a bit clinical, I know. Am I way off here?'

I know from my own experience that HCPs won't discuss this sort of stuff as they don't reckon it's the point. I believe it can help immensely though if you're a rationalising type of person - I am too - and I needed clear answers as to how much I could eat without feeling sick. I didn't think I could eat enough. I didn't believe the generalisations...I wanted my own personal scientist. I never found one, and I still try and control food using my own dubious theories, but mainly and luckily I am able to stay in normal range even so.

You won't get those answers from your counsellor but you can talk to her about your dad. xx

Btw I did it gradually - starting to eat I mean. It helped that I met a man and fell in love, so the food became secondary to that, maybe he was just another focus...I found my bravery somewhere and just made the leap. But I did it gradually, the eating and the losing/forgetting to control it all so much. Nothing awful happened along the way, for me to get angry with myself for.

It was letting go of the voices that told me I couldn't do things just in case...when really I had not checked out if they were safe or not, and some of them were safe. I had to experiment.

Ludwig I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread here. My SiL has just started treatment for anorexia and I'm hoping I can find some information that could help me to help her on here.

I was interested to read what overcameana thought about anorexia being an addiction. That very much fits with my SiL's personality and what she's told me about her experiences. I had eating issues as a teenager and would regularly purge for a couple of years, but I've always felt that the reason it didn't tip over to a full blown eating disorder was that my personality is not that addictive - and I didn't have a particular event that triggered it, unlike SiL who, it turns out, has been through quite a lot. Just adding my thoughts here and I'm certainly not an expert.

One thing that struck me about some of the above posts is the assumption that the desired baselines is no food and no calories at all. This really stands out to me - because in fact the baseline for an adult to get through the day and supply your vital organs and functions with the energy they need just to keep on working is something in the region of 1200 calories. That's if you were in bed all day, not even sitting up. If you are working, exercising, running after kids, the calorie requirement just to keep your body functioning rises dramatically, probably to something like 2000 calories for an adult woman. I realise that this is not what anorexia is really about, but just wanted to point that out in case it resonates with anyone.

I'm expecting my first child at the moment and have always had a fear that I will pass on my body hang ups to my kids (the way my mum inadvertently did with me). You can't change the illness you're living with - even when you get to a better place and it doesn't rule your life quite so much - but you can do your best to seek help from whomever will give it to you - trust me, you owe your children that much. I exercise a lot too and will never have a slim build, but what strikes me most about my purging days is that even at the lowest 'healthy' weight for my height and build, I wasn't happy, and was convinced I was fat. I am in fact fatter now but am also much, much healthier than I ever was then - no anaemia, no chronic lingering viruses, coughs, exhaustion.

I don't know what I'm really trying to add here, but just wanted to thank you all for posting so candidly. I really want to do everything I can to help my lovely SiL, but even with some small measure of experience I don't even know where to start.

Yes, the idea of anorexia/eating disorders being of an addictive nature is most definitely a valid one - I am so very reluctant to give up my current way of thinking about food and eating habits.

Ghosteditor - I really hope that your SIL comes through OK - great that she's getting help and that for yourself your pregnancy is enjoyable - it's a really exciting and unique time!

Lovetomatoes - yes, my counsellor has been trying to break down the whole issue of fear, as she believes that I am operating from the core of my being from it, and gradually, through little steps, we hope to break down this level of fear. So, the task was to have breakfast and very small lunch in the last two weeks but I just have not been able to achieve this - the best I have managed to eat is the crusts from the children's toast in the morning and some fruit at lunch, with a big cup of coffee and water in between. It always seems easier to eat a bit of someone else's food rather than my own. She is not that happy about it but she says to keep trying. As you say, she can't eat it or prepare it for me, so it's up to me to do so and so far I have failed. It's just getting out of this cycle of fear of trying, fear of the physical feeling of eating, fear of the consequences.

Gloria - OK, so the anger thing is more of an issue than i gave it credit for. I'll tease this out more with my counsellor. Think the next session could be an interesting one - depending on what her tactics are too. I think she's intending to really challenge all of this - I'm more nervous about this next session than any of the others....Oh well - used to that..