is wireless technology good for our children?

[djshed]

I am posting this to help raise awareness of my condition and to hopefully protect all of our children in the future.

Having recently discovered that i am electro hypersensitive (ehs) i have discovered some very disturbing facts about our children's schools their wifi access and the effect our mobile and wireless communications are having on our children. This includes digital baby monitors.

We all enjoy the convenience mobile technology gives us but there may be serious health risks, especially for children.

A classroom fitted with wi-fi means that the children and staff are exposed to constant low-level microwave radiation. A small number of people are likely to suffer symptoms like headaches as a result.

Everyone is affected cumulatively by this exposure and current evidence suggests that children may be more likely to develop medical problems during childhood, as well as cancers and other serious illnesses later in life.

Low-level microwave radiation has also been linked to problems with cognitive skills, particularly memory, concentration and reaction time. Read more about the health effects...

Of particular significance for children are studies which indicate that children absorb more radiation in the brain than adults which may indicate a greater risk of brain tumours.

I have spoken to my four year old son's head teacher and that very afternoon she started to remove the DECT cordless landline phones from the class rooms, this is a great start but the wifi and mobile phone signals are still there. i want to protect my child, what will you do to protect your's from this invisible pollution??

if you have any information on how we can get the schools to take notice and ado[pt a cautionary approach towards this growing technology please respond, also if you want to find out more then respond and lets all get communicating with our children's schools.

many thanks for reading

I am not disagreeing with you but the levels and mw reading will vary when sending or receiving but they are both in the high level readings rather than the low level.

This study in Denmark of 420,000 mobile phone users concluded that mobile phones were safe. I've not heard of any other study of such a large population. Do you think that study is meaningless?

Nevertheless, in asking for 100% proof of safety you're asking for the impossible. Do you insist on reports from the schools guaranteeing 100% safety in the food they provide to the children? Or in the paints that they use in class? Or in the plants that are in the playgrounds?

Do you insist that the school prevents your child from going outside so that they are not exposed to the known and proven dangers of malignant melanomas caused by enormous amount of multi-frequency electromagnetic radiation blasted out by the sun?

No? So why the particular obsession interest in wifi when you ignore all the rest of these things?

I don't know for certain that mobile phones and wifi are safe. I do know enough about signal propagation and how that tends to be absorbed to regard the risks as acceptably low. The fact that there has not been (as far as I am aware) a single large-scale study that shows a risk also makes me feel better.

I know that there have been some small-scale studies of the effects of gigahertz radiation on in-vitro cell samples that have come up with some potentially worrying results. And others that suggest it actually helps in cell self-repair. So I think it's safe to say the jury's still out on that one. And, anyway, small clumps of cells will react differently to this kind of thing than a body en mass due to the way that radiated energy is absorbed and conducted to surrounding tissues.

All of the studies I've seen deal with signal levels that are far in excess of what wifi produces as these studies are generally talking about maximum mobile phone signal strengths if not higher.

Wifi typically operates at less than a tenth of the signal strength of phones plus wifi transmitters are further from your body than phones are when in use so that massively reduces the amount that's absorbed by the body (again, that pesky inverse square law).

Oh, and I watched that YouTube video by Dr Magda Havas about her "live blood analysis" of her own blood. She made a big deal about her blood cells apparently stacking together into "rouleaux formation" after being on the computer for a while and using a phone.

Two things: first, I'm not doctor, but I believe that ones blood will tend to do this not just in case of disease but also simple dehydration. She openly admits she didn't drink for a number of hours before and during the test.

Second, if her blood really is clotting like that all the time and regardless of her state of hydration, she needs to see a doctor.

I'm sorry - the 'particles' of the microwave.....

errrrrrrr snorbs I really don't think there's much point arguing any more..

One final thing on Dr Havas - she seems to have some real problems with producing proper studies or conducting good science.

Here is an illuminating link which examines the many and varied ways she's messed up. Not least that when you're doing experiments regarding people's self-reported perceptions of pain it is crucially important that double-blind studies are conducted properly otherwise you are at significant risk of placebo effects. I wouldn't put too much weight on what she says.

Have you got in touch with JREF yet about the million dollars that could be yours?

This leak detector that the EMF dangers people have sold you - does it have actual readings or is it just 'low' 'high'

Have you held it while using a food mixer or similar, because I think you might be shocked at what they emit when in use too.

Oooh - we're including radiowaves in this now are we?

Google Cosmic Background Radiation - it'll scare you witless.

That article is so out of date!

try these one's for a more up to date view point??

www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/10/26/238287/Mobile-phones-cause-brain-cancer-says-World-Health.htm

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1287842/As-scientists-warn-regular-mobile-use-CAN-cause-cancer-just-safe-mobile-phone.html

Even scarier are cosmic rays. Or the frankly terrifying Ultra-high energy cosmic rays, with energies millions of times higher than those being generated in the Large Hadron Collider.

djshed, which article is "so out of date"? I'll pass on the Daily Mail one thanks. I'll have a look at the other one in a minute.

Can I ask that if you post a URL can you do it with double square brackets either side so that MN does it as a clickable link? It makes it a lot easier to keep track.

And can you answer my questions over what other things you insist that schools produce a 100% safety report on? Thanks!

Snorbs - the first one is a link to an article in the telegraph about an unpublished (at the time of the article, I'll see if it's published now) from WHO, which the Telegraph reports as saying heavy mobile phone usage increases the risk of brain cancer.

However, a quote in the computer weekly article from the person producing the report for WHO is:

Elisabeth Cardis, who heads the report team, said, "In the absence of definitive results and in the light of a number of studies which, though limited, suggest a possible effect of radio frequency radiation, precautions are important."

(emphasis mine)

ie. whilst the Telegraph says that the report says they cause cancer, the person writing the report says no such thing.

From WHO direct (rather than a report of a report of an unpublished report)

www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs193/en/

Some choice exerpts:

^Are there any health effects?

A large number of studies have been performed over the last two decades to assess whether mobile phones pose a potential health risk. To date, no adverse health effects have been established for mobile phone use. ^

Further, research has not been able to provide support for a causal relationship between exposure to electromagnetic fields and self-reported symptoms, or ?electromagnetic hypersensitivity?.

The only dangers they consider worth mentioning are those of driving while on a mobile!

The original report is available here. I haven't read it all as it's 20 pages long but the conclusion says (emphasis mine):

"Overall, no increase in risk of glioma or meningioma was observed with use of mobile phones. There were suggestions of an increased risk of glioma at the highest exposure levels, but biases and error prevent a causal interpretation. The possible effects of long-term heavy use of mobile phones require further investigation."

Which is quite different from the newspaper headlines. Imagine my surprise.

djshed, you really should get into the habit of looking at the original research that is being misquoted rather than believing other people's interpretations of it.

everyone knows the mobile phone companies will produce propaganda to try a besmirch the reputation of those who dare to shout it out that their product is potentially harmful.

The study which the WHO look to for their advice has at least 11 design flaws grossly understimate the risk, and even still, the Interphone study, just pubished in the International Journal of Epidemiology, still shows statistically significant increased risk of brain tumors after 10 years of cellphone use. This is ominous because toxicants often take decades to show tumor risks, and we are seeing it at just 10 years. Cell phone usage rates in the Interphone study were just a fraction of cell phone usage rates today among adults and children alike. Finally, without explanation, results were not pubished for acoustic neuromas and salivary gland tumors which are the tumors closest to the ear against which one places the cell phone.

i suppose this vimeo.com/17271105 lady has made it all up too!!

I don't really expect the schools to give a 100% guarantee to the safety of wifi but i haven't been given any assurances that it is at all safe! i haven't even been given a report to say that the levels of microwave radiation are safe in his school from the various mobile phone masts around?

if my son has food allergies i would not and the school would not give him those items of food. if they go outside when it is nice and bright sunshine he will be covered in sunscreen to prevent UV, which is in the electromagnetic spectrum as are microwaves, giving him skin cancer.

since buying a couple of metering devices, namely the gigahertz ME3030 and the cornet electrosmog meter, I have now carried out a number of very basic electromagnetic surveys for friends and family who have been suffering with bad sleep and headaches. i have identified that their wireless technologies and their heavy use of electrical items are having an effect. afterwards i have left them all with a list of items to switch off when not using especially at night and all of the head aches have gone and one friend who has been suffering with insomnia for 2 years is now sleeping like a baby again. i have read many but if i am honest i don't really feel the need to read any more of the scientific reports and surveys to tell me this stuff is not good for us in the long or short term.

and as for being scared witless i don't need to go further than my living room. i cannot sleep in my own bed due to the emf's in the floor under my bed from old wiring, i cannot stand up anywhere downstairs without my head splitting with pain due to the emf being emitted from the old wiring in the ceilings, i cannot stand in the kitchen without getting a banging headache because of the neighbours dect cordless landline. and as for taking a recording of a food blender i cannot turn it on without my arms tingling and my face burning with a rash appearing on my eyebrows within minutes. i am afraid of how bad it will get, and as far as the solar flares are concerned i don't know how i will cope with them as i am sure they will be far greater than my neighbours cordless phone!

Man made Electro magnetic fields have been causing us humans to have a vast number of illnesses since the introduction of electricity into homes back in the early 1900's. if our governments want us to reduce our carbon footprint then they should just tell everyone the truth about electricity and the relationship between electromagnetic fields and human health have shown over the years to be detrimental. did you know that a society without electricity or electrical equipment at all has absolutely no cases of ADHD children? (armish)

So the proven risk of skin cancer - a risk that sun-screen merely reduces, not eliminates - is acceptable to you but the fact that there have been zero studies that show any risk of wifi energy levels has you up in arms?

And I note the way that you were the one that raised the Interphone study as showing that there is a risk but now that I've gone to the bother of actually reading it - something that you still seem not to have done - you're disregarding its conclusions.

"i cannot sleep in my own bed due to the emf's in the floor under my bed from old wiring, i cannot stand up anywhere downstairs without my head splitting with pain due to the emf being emitted from the old wiring in the ceilings"

Um. right. You do know that if there isn't any current flowing through a cable there aren't any electro-magnetic fields being radiated, don't you?

Out of interest though, can you tell us a) at what range can you detect these wires from, and b) where you sleep?

One final question - how can you use a computer?

OK here goes;

i use a computer for short periods of time with a screen which is to ROHS standards which means very very low emissions. the tower and power supply are about eight feet away from me, but i am currently building a Faraday cage to house them in. the power lead which goes to the monitor and the data lead are both triple shielded to allow me longer time at the computer as the cables emit about 1500 v/m.

I sleep in the living room in the farthest corner from the fuse box, which is right in the middle of the house. i am currently sleeping on a memory foam sofa bed, which leaves much for comfort in the long term! and even in this position where the readings are lowest in the house i often wake up with a head ache. i have had to cover the windows with a film which reflects and absorbs the radio and microwaves.

as soon as i walk in the house the pressure in my head starts to build. if i am in the proximity of a high strength field i become disorientated and very hot and my neck and shoulder pains begin to throb. so to answer your question i am picking up on fields which are below 5 v/m. electromagnetic fields generated by our electricity ie 50htz range do degenerate very quickly the further away from them you go however if you have one in the corner of the room and one in the middle there will be an overlap of fields and no escape for me.

and i think you need to re check your knowledge base as there are both magnetic fields and electromagnetic fields stored in electric cables especially if there is a compact fluorescent light bulb fitted to that circuit. this is know as dirty electricity, it is to do with harmonics and the high frequency voltage transients in the cables. if you shut the whole system down with no electricity in house or the cable at all then, yes there will be no emf present once it has been discharged. but if i do this how do i keep the fridge powered up?

I am not disregarding the results of the interphone study at all but even if you had read what they had published i am interested in the information they have not published! what about those flaws? if they did not exist then the end result would be very very different.

and i do not let my son stay in the sun too long, he doesn't like sitting in 0 he sun lounger reading a good book yet, but when he does go outside he is protected as far as i can protect him with sunscreen and applied at the right times with the right amounts. i would never let him sit in the sun for 6 - 8 hours a day! when he goes to school he will be exposed to 6 - 8 hours of low level microwave radiation and maybe 2 hours of high level when he is in the it suite.

1. I must be missing something here but I cannot understand how a 240V mains power cable can generate a 1500V/m field. The most it could do is, surely, 240V/m? If it's an LCD screen then the invertor for the backlight might run that high but, of course, that would be the same regardless of whether the mains cable is "triple-shielded" or not. Incidentally, how much did this triple-shielded cable cost? And why did you bother triple-shielding the video cable as well? That only runs at a few volts.

2. I thought the RoHS was about safety of materials used - ie, that they're free from lead, mercury etc. I didn't know that RoHS said anything about electric fields. Obviously I've been misinformed. Can you tell me what the RoHS limits are for electric fields? I can't find any reference to them on the RoHS website. You might want to look into TEMPEST instead. Now that's serious emissions control.

3. You can detect less than a 5V/m field? Crikey. That's unbelievably low. So the fields you get off digital cameras, computer mice, torches, radios, all those are detectable by you? Wow.
   In fact, a quick back-of-an-envelope calculation suggests that you'd be able to detect whether a mains cable was live or not from over 20 feet away! That's incredible in the truest sense of the word!
   I'll say again what I've said before - that kind of ability is far outside current scientific knowledge. The JREF will pay you a million dollars if you can demonstrate this. Are you really not interested in that much cash? Think how many triple-shielded cables and faraday cages you could buy with that!

4. "and i think you need to re check your knowledge base as there are both magnetic fields and electromagnetic fields stored in electric cables especially if there is a compact fluorescent light bulb fitted to that circuit."
   No, I was correct. Electric cables store nothing. There is nothing for the cable to "discharge". If you have a cable going through the ceiling to a lamp but the lamp is switched off, that electric cable might as well be a lump of wood for all the EMF it generates. Do you power your fridge off the cables that go underneath your bed?

As for "dirty electricity", what studies have there been to suggest that the transients you do get in mains cables from switching things on and off are any cause for health concerns?

Ooh, one other thing. According to this, the natural electric field of the earth at sea level is around 200V/m at around 0.01Hz.

I imagine that lightning storms, even if miles off, must be incredibly uncomfortable for you.

1. 240v at 50htz will produce in excess of 2000volts per meter. there is a calculation to work it out and therefore you might find this handy? whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci532376,00.html. the cable is only triple insulated because i have used a material called velostat to wrap around the cable three times thus reducing the emf exposure considerably.

2)if honest i have no idea what the RoHS stands for, all i know is that it is an lcd screen which gives off almost no electromagnetic fields from the screen. behind is a different story though it is higher there but thank fully i don't sit behind it.
i am not getting the link between tempest and the emf of a lcd screen??

3. 5 v/m in the 50 htz range is very very different to battery power. unfortunately for me i can feel the emf from most electrical appliances. once i have loaded the washing machine i have to switch on and get out ASAP. i cannot stand in the kitchen and think straight when the fridge motor starts to run. it is a good excuse to get out of the washing up!

4. i really thin you must check again an electrical cable which is part of a ring main or lighting circuit will hold current residual current if the circuit is live but the lights are not on! maybe if you look at some of the work done by Sam Milham, MD, MPH. he has looked at the records of health since early 1900 when electricity was first introduced into homes and farms. there is also a professor Graham & stetzer. they do sell a product so beware of adverts but do try to look beyond that. when i have been taking reading from a compact fluorescent light bulb there has only about 400 v/m between them when the light was on or off.

and finally i am in considerable pain all day everyday and have been for the last 10 years! my current pain management menu, on a daily basis, consists of 4000 mg paracetamol, 400mg tramadol, 80mg baclofen and 50mg amitripyline, this is no joke. i have only recently discovered what is causing me to be in so much more pain and i am in the middle of a steep and painful learning curve. so for being uncomfortable in a thunder storm? i don't know if that will increase the pain, as i haven't yet experienced a lightning storm while being under observation.

perhaps you could invest in a meter yourself and see what you and your family are being exposed too?

also snorbs you posted the following "This study in Denmark of 420,000 mobile phone users concluded that mobile phones were safe. I've not heard of any other study of such a large population. Do you think that study is meaningless?"

in answer, yes i think this study is meaningless and ten years old!

Condition from the JREF.... LOL... i cannot beleive i even looked it up.....

12. This offer is not open to any and all persons. Before being considered as an applicant, the person applying must satisfy two conditions: First, he/she must have a ?media presence,? which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person?s abilities. Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.

Guess what??? i do not currently have any of the above, but who knows maybe soon.....as long as the next big solar flare down't make my head explode!!!!

1. Ah, right, I get it now - when you got that very high measurement you were measuring at a point very very close to the cable, yes? With a 240V cable you will only get a maximum of 240V/m measured at one metre distance.

2. LCD screens do give off EMF from the high frequency/high voltage invertor used to power the cold-cathode backlight. As does the switch-mode PSU that drives the screen as a whole. These EMF sources might be at a frequency too high for your meter to detect though. Which suggests that if your meter can't show you there's a field then you don't get any symptoms. Curious...
   TEMPEST is a military standard for reduction of EMF from computing equipment. It is, as far as I am aware, the only serious standards for such techniques. So if you want to know how to shield computing equipment, TEMPEST tells you how.

3. I accept that 5V/m with DC is different to 5V/m with AC. But it's still a field. So you're not sensitive to static fields, even if they're moving through them, but you are to alternating fields. Interesting. Even battery-powered radios emit alternating fields as part of the tuning circuit. Digital cameras and computer mice also emit alternating fields - with lots of transients and harmonics as well - from the digital circuitry inside them. But you're ok with those, whereas a mains cable with no current flowing through it some metres away will give you a headache. Gosh. How selective.

4. I have had a quick look at Sam Milham's website although I must admit to sniggering at his article about the dangers of the magnetic fields given off by the steel belts in modern radial tyres. On the other hand, some others of his papers seem like good science albeit his conclusions tend to be much more guarded than seem to be attributed to him by those trying to sell you dirty electricity filters.

I have had a look at the Stetzer website. I was going to do a detailed rebuttal of the astonishing piffle on that site but you wouldn't believe me anyway so it would be a waste of time. Basically, though,
a) Stetzer is absolutely full of shit, and
b) how convenient that he owns the only company that happens to sell the magic filters (only $35 each! You'll need 20 of them!) to save you from the dangers he says are all around you. That is not a coincidence that should be ignored.

As for overall risk factors of electricity in the home, I can't help but note that average life expectancy has increased hugely over the last century - in fact, if you plot a graph of increasing electricity in the home and increasing life expectancy, they match quite closely. I'm sure that's just a coincidence but nevertheless it does suggest to me we're not dealing with an epidemic here.

I know that there are electromagnetic fields surrounding us every day. I don't doubt that for a second. What I seriously doubt - because of the huge number of studies that have shown there to be no link - is that there are health effects caused by the field levels caused by mains wiring.

I appreciate that high levels of microwave energy is potentially hazardous. And, while the balance of studies so far suggest that the low levels of energy given off by mobile phones is safe, I'm keeping an open mind on that. I do not believe that the significantly lower energy signals from wifi, combined with the different usage scenarios of wifi equipment versus mobile phones, mean that wifi is a hazard. Not least that there have been no studies that have shown any such link.

I don't doubt you are in pain. I do not believe that you can actually detect a 5V/m electrical field without a meter being there to tell you such a field exists. Whenever people claiming such abilities - at much higher field levels than you claim - have been tested in properly conducted double-blind tests, it has always become clear that they cannot actually detect those fields. In other words, it's a psychosomatic response.

I have spent short amounts of time on high-dose opiods like you and I know how disorienting they can be. I hope one day you finally find a cure for whatever it is that is really ailing you.

I am no longer going to post on this topic as there really is nothing else to be said.

snorbs it is a shame you are leaving the thread as your cynicism was interesting but your arguments short lived, however i am pleased you have decided to stop posting apart from your antiquated knowledge and your narrow mindedness about the whole topic, you have been the most patronising individual i think i have come across!

(?? 2) LCD screens do give off EMF from the high frequency/high voltage invertor used to power the cold-cathode backlight. As does the switch-mode PSU that drives the screen as a whole. These EMF sources might be at a frequency too high for your meter to detect though. Which suggests that if your meter can't show you there's a field then you don't get any symptoms. Curious...)

why would that suggest that ? you are full of it! i cannot sit in front of it for long as it does emit emf's!

life expectancy has risen because we have inoculated against alot of deadly diseases and learnt how to put human waste into pipes and suers.

i suggest you read sam milham's book you may learn something.

might i also suggest you read some up to date research and findings on the safety of mobile phones and wireless devices. or even buy a meter and see for yourself, stop hiding behind studies and science and see for your self!

might i further suggest you learn about wifi and microwaves, wireless units are cumulative. the more you have the more out put and the higher the microwave radiation being emitted!!

This lady seems to say alot.... she says it all...

"stop hiding behind studies and science"

Yeah Snorbs you irrational science apologist!

did anyone read the telegraph??

has anyone heard of the Council of Europe?? they have called for a ban of mobile phones and wifi from schools!!!

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8514380/Ban-mobile-phones-and-wireless-networks-in-schools-say-European-leaders.html

Please for your children and your children's children sake read this and look into the subject.

Do you want to be Grandparents?? well you won't get the chance if the children keep using the phones the way they do and we keep bombarding them with wifi at school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!