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Another suspected urine infection in dd - when will it ever end cos I have just about had enough!

80 replies

Aero · 26/09/2005 20:26

Anyone else got experience of this. It's driving me nuts and I have no idea how she just keeps getting this. She has constant problems with her 'minnie' and I don't know what to do to help her. She's just had a course of Trimethroprim (sp) a few weeks ago, which seemed to clear it up, but it has just returned. Next available appointment is Friday, unless we ring up for an emergency one in the morning and go through the whole triage over the phone process.......yawn. Why can't they just give you an emergency one when it's clear she needs to be seen!? That means I will call at 9am, the nurse won't call me until near 11am and then if she thinks dd deserves to be seen, we will perhaps get an appointment tomorrow sometime. Forgive the rant........I'm just so fed up with this and feel so helpless!

OP posts:
Lonelymum · 26/09/2005 21:58

Aero, if I were you, I would psh very stongly for some scans. A friend of mine has recurrent UTIs and it was discovered early on in her life that she has funny kidneys - I forget exactly what is wrong with them but it isn't life threatening so don't worry, but she will always be prone to UTIs. There is nothing she can do re antibiotics, homeopathic remedies etc to stop herself getting them.

I also used to get frequent UTIs but I had a tumour growing on my kidney - again I say this not to worry you, but simply to persuade you to push for further tests and scans. Your poor dd. I so remember the misery of UTIs and I am so glad I no longer get them. The slightest sign of one now and I go berserk!

Lonelymum · 26/09/2005 22:02

Also you can have a bladder that doesn't empty itself fully each time you urinate. The pool of urine left behind becomes a breeding ground for bacteria. You could try getting your dd to wait for about 30 seconds after she has wee'd and then push again to see if she can expel anymore drips. But this is a preventative measure of course in line with not holding on to wee once you feel the need to go, and drinking plenty. It sounds like you will be back at the doctors tomorrow. So so sorry for your dd.

almost40 · 26/09/2005 22:02

You must get a scan. DD1 had a UTI when she was like 9 months old, and we immediately had a scan. She hasn't had one since, but if your DD has them frequently, she clearly needs a scan.

Aero · 26/09/2005 22:13

She did have a scan after the very first infection and things were ok then, but none since. I just feel for her as it never seems to just be ok down there! Will see the GP tomorrow and I guess they'll test and send off a swab and prescribe Trimethroprim again, but I think I will ask for a referral. If I see the right Dr, I think she will offer one anyway as we've been there so often over this issue.
I think I will also investigate the homeopathic route too - will just have to find out if anyone knows of a good one locally (Medway in Kent). I think it's certainly worth a try.
I try to adhere to all the advice and although we do use a little bubbles in the bath because the water is so hard, it literally is a drop - about the size of a 10p piece - of Johnsons baby bath, so I would have thought it would be fairly gentle. She only has 2-3 baths a week and the rest of the time I just wash her with plain water, standing in the bath with the shower head and a flannel, very gently.

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cadbury · 27/09/2005 08:05

Aero. Dh (the fount of all useless information) tells me you can get cranberry capsules which will do the same job with out the sharp taste. That might be something to look at. I dare say Holland and Barratts do them.

Furball · 27/09/2005 08:25

I will say that anything Johnsons and Johnsons brings my son out in a rash and has done since day one - it is not as friendly as you might think. Try popping along to your local health shop and getting a more natural product.

Furball · 27/09/2005 08:38

Also try washing her pants in a more freindly washing powder. It may well be the washing powder or fabric softner.

TracyK · 27/09/2005 08:49

May be completely tv propoganda - but did they not link the bacteria in chickens to UTI's? Does dd eat a lot of chicky?

beetle73 · 27/09/2005 09:42

Hi Aero,

If your DD had scans after her first infection, then it sounds clear that there's nothing wrong, but I thought I'd share my experience in case it's helpful. My DD had a UTI at 4 months, which quickly became a kidney infection. She was treated in hosp with IV antibiotics and then given a retrograde cystography, which showed that she had bilateral reflux - when she empties her bladder, some of the urine flows back up to the kidneys thus increasing the risk of infection. She was put on low dose antibiotics and is still on them 10 months later, to minimise the risk of infection and consequent kidney scarring.

She has since had another ultrasound and a DMSA scan which suggested slight kidney scarring, so she'll be on antibiotics for a while longer. Once she is continent, they will give her another retrograde cystography.

If I were you I would seek reassurance that these frequent UTIs don't have an underlying cause, and that if they go unnoticed they don't get as far as damaging the kidneys.

Hope that's some help, and not just adding to your fears....

RedZuleika · 27/09/2005 11:35

Sorry to hear about your daughter's problems. I do sympathise as I had similar problems myself with recurrent UTIs / kidney infections from the age of 5 through to 12. The first time was really hideous, passing blood etc. This was before trimethoprim had come on the market and I was put on another antibiotic daily, although I don't recollect that it was very successful. We lived in the US for a while and when there, they had an exploratory rootle about - and the best they could come up with was similar to what beetle73 describes: a malformed valve was allowing reflux of urine back from the bladder to the kidneys and they just hoped I would grow out of it. This wasn't definite however, just their best guess.

When we returned to the UK, I was lucky to be referred to the Professor who had developed trimethoprim and a daily low dose of this seemed, in general, to stop the infections. I still did morning MSU samples, at first monthly, then with decreasing frequency, stopping at 16. The last few years, I was only doing them twice a year. I stopped the medication at 12. The GP told my mother (whilst... ahem... looking embarrassed) that the infections might return 'when I got married' . Although I have had UTIs as an adult, there have only been about three or four, mainly related to my mode of contraception (can't use a diaphragm, for instance). I have been lucky in late pregnancy (as I now am) not to get an infection, but have been taking cranberry tablets for a while. If / when I do get a UTI these days, it's always nasty, with bleeding - so if it's out of hours, I don't bother p*ssing about with the GP, but have gone to A&E.

Your comments about the schooltrip rang bells, as my mother found it very difficult to get through to teachers, dinner ladies etc about my need to go to the toilet immediately and consume large quantities of water / dilute squash. More than you would think. My school had some bizarre Dickensian rules around lunchtimes and you weren't allowed to drink anything until after you'd had your meal; there were no drinking fountains.

Even now, I have a very high fluid intake and am very sensitive to my urine becoming more concentrated than usual (if I'm going away, I usually have some sodium citrate sachets in my toilet bag). If I do a sample now, it usually looks like I've just run the tap into the jar - good for the skin though!

Another thing that was suggested was to go to the loo every hour to squeeze some out, even if I didn't have the urge. I'm not sure I ever followed that through, however, because I was usually in the middle of doing something that I didn't want to leave. I also hated being treated like some kind of invalid, even if it was for my own benefit.

I have heard that changing your washing powder and not using soaps in the crotch area can help.

Anyway. Sorry this is a bit long - but really, if it's gone on this long, I'm surprised the GP hasn't suggested referring her to a urologist before now. I'd jump up and down and have a right hissy fit with him / her if they're less than co-operative. It's so debilitating. Going to the loo first thing in the morning was sooooo painful, I used to lie on the floor for 20 minutes afterwards waiting for the pain to subside (on the upside - it has left me with pelvic floor muscles that could crack a walnut... )

daisy1999 · 27/09/2005 11:39

I would insist on a docs appt and take a sample. The guidelines are that a girl should be refered for investigation after one confirmed infection. If you are getting repeated infections they need to refer again.

cadbury · 27/09/2005 12:27

she has taken dd to the drs this morning. Will point her towards this when she gets home.

ajmum · 27/09/2005 12:48

Just like to add that this is really common and my dd after one confirmed UTI at 9 months was referred for all tests. She has some kidney abnormalities (four kidneys actually) and reflux as already described and has to stay on antibiotics until she's four (not ideal but better than dialysis at a later date!). She luckily has no scarring. Please make sure this child is referred. Cannot believe that she has had infections for years and has NOT been referred as this appears to be the standard practice as other posters have noted.

Aero · 27/09/2005 14:20

She hasn't had infections as such ajmum, the last one (over the summer) was only the second confirmed one, but she has almost constant soreness and redness in the area and on and off it hurts when she needs to pass urine.

The urine was clear again but there was a thickish white (like the thrush type discharge) substance inside the folds of her labia. The Dr was going on on about the hygiene thing to get rid of this saying that this build up may be causing her irritation, and she hasn't given us abs yet as doesn't suspect an infection. We have to use cream for the inflammation over the next wek or so then go again if there's no improvement. Thing is, I'm not sure how much more hygienic we can be. She has two baths a week, but is washed daily (standing up in the bath using the showerhead) in that area for exactly this reason. She is reluctant though to let me near her to make sure the white stuff is gone as it hurts her and she's anticipating pain all the time so is jumpy.
I'm concerned that the GP asked who else was living in the house with us though. I'm sure I looked confused when I answered just dh and the boys. My concern is, what she may be asking, by asking that iyswim. Obviously I have no concerns at all regarding anything like she may have been suggesting, but it concerned me that she asked and now feel very stressed by that and possibly that I might be reluctant to take dd again because of it. I didn't ask for a referral - I probably should have, but I just didn't think of it while I was in there. Also dd was a bit unco-operative when GP tried to take a swab, so not sure anything will show up on that! I find the whole thing utterly frustrating. I have brought her home though and she's soaked in the bath for an hour and I've shown her how to remove the white stuff herself and for now she seems ok. I will bathe her alone from now on (not with the boys) and perhaps a long soak in plain water nightly rather than showering (which last GP suggested - conflicting information/advice is a real PITA), and we'll see how it goes. Just seems a bit weird that an infection was definitely present a month ago and her symptoms are exactly the same now as then, yet the GP doesn't seem to think infection is causing it this time.

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 27/09/2005 14:30

Aero, I think there are referral guidelines - I cannot remember them (dd had repeated UTIs) but I think once they have had more than one confirmed case, they get referred (like you did) and then your notes should be at the hospital should she have anymore.

I know you've probably thought of this, but do you use gentle washing powder? dd gets terrible soreness around her vulva (think that's the right term!) from using certain brands of washing powder.

At least they have taken a swab so they will know for sure if there is a problem. Good luck.

Aero · 27/09/2005 14:41

Thanks fis - no I just use own brand washing powder as no-one has any skin complaints, but think I will buy Fairy (would that be the one to buy?) next time - happy to try anything tbh that might help. Strangely enough, today, she hasn't been running to the loo every ten minutes like she was yesterday.
I actually worried by her question though re who lives here! Dh is hardly here anyway (works away a lot), but I don't even know why I feel I might need to justify that! Maybe we're just not cleaning her well enough and that together with other factors ie bubbles in bath, biological washing powder etc could be enough to cause her such irritation.

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foxinsocks · 27/09/2005 14:52

yes I've just bought Fairy non-bio (was using the biological stuff before because it washes so much better but I'll separate dd's stuff now and do it on it's own). I don't know if your dd is in tights yet at school - dd is very sore at the moment and I think it's a combination of the biological washing powder and the tights making her a bit sweaty and thus a great breeding ground for nasties. Definitely try the Fairy non-bio - it should help.

I hate it when you get probing questions from the GP - as you say, you know exactly what they are implying. I guess they are only doing their job but I always think the sort of people that do that to their children also don't take them to the doctors to get them sorted!

RedZuleika · 27/09/2005 14:52

I was going to mention in my post that your GP or others may raise child protection issues at some point - but didn't because I thought you might find it additionally distressing. I shouldn't worry about it - your GP is only doing their job at the end of the day - but chronic urinary infections in female children is perceived to be a potential symptom of sexual abuse. I'm sure my mother was gently questioned on this subject as well (although you could argue that gently questioning the child, in privacy, would be the most profitable line to pursue).

Anyway. When your daughter has done a urine sample, what time of day is taken? It can be possible to get a clear result during the day, but white cells to be found from the one first thing in the morning. When I did mine, I used to wash, then take a mid-stream sample from the first 'flow' of the day.

Not had any experience of this swabbing, but did discover that not washing prior to the MSU sample could contaminate an otherwise clear specimen.

When you've washed her with the showerhead, did you have it pointing downwards, so the water was flowing over and away from her vulva?

foxinsocks · 27/09/2005 14:53

and at least if it is an infection, they've got a swab so if you need to be referred, they can't argue with the results

RedZuleika · 27/09/2005 14:57

Don't Ecover do a touchy-feely-lovey washing laundry liquid? You could try that and see if makes any difference in the short term.

Furball · 27/09/2005 16:16

I would say - if you are going to buy something specific in the way of washing powder I would steer away from typical brands. You don't have to do the whole wash with it, You could only do say one wash a week, with just her pants and towels etc. Most large supermarkets sell eco powders that arn't fragranced etc. It's going to have to be trial and error for you both which one you pick. But hopefully it should help and hopefully stop the irritation.

Just a thought but could she have thrush?

Furball · 27/09/2005 16:18

Oh and don't forget, it could also be your fabric softner! So maybe change to a 'friendly' brand or if you tumble dry stuff - don't bother with softner at all.

HappyMumof2 · 27/09/2005 16:43

Message withdrawn

Aero · 27/09/2005 18:27

Yes RZ to the showerhead pointing downwards to try and wash any nasties away.

Don't tend to use fabric softener, so no worries there. Will switch to non bio and wash her pants etc in that.

Yes, fis - should re-assure myself re probing questions - I'd hardly take her to be checked out if I thought there was anything that could possibly make them think that sort of thing! Just hate the way that this came first before any suggestion of further investigation. It could even be that she isn't emptying her blader properly.

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Dropinthe · 27/09/2005 18:30

Mummylonglegs DD has just suffered with this.