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Original poster

cancer treatment at 89? would you go ahead?

64 replies

nightcat · 09/10/2010 17:47

Awful dilemma, my dad is quite frail and nearly 89 and has been diagnosed with skin cancer that looks like it may have spread. Dr said operate + chemo, I wasn't there to ask all the questions, but I can't say that he would make it through in his general state of health and he is not keen either (mentally he is 100% with it, but very frail).
Does anyone have experience of thit type of treatment post 80? Have they made it thorugh or is it better to leave it be?

OP posts:
WhatsThatDuckDoingThere · 09/10/2010 17:49

Presumably the doc knows best, but I have to say that cancer in the elderly generally spreads a lot less quickly than in younger people. A large proportion of very elderly people die with cancer rather than of it.

Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 17:53

oh ducky, thank you, such a nice way to put it, it also fits in with my thinking; his heart is quite weak, was recently in intensive care b/c of very low blood pressure

OP posts:
WhatsThatDuckDoingThere · 09/10/2010 17:55

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, I forgot to say that before. I'm afraid that as my parents both died quite young that I forget that when people's elderly parents are ill, that they actually feel just as strongly about it as I did when my folks were poorly Blush

phipps · 09/10/2010 17:59

When you say he is not keen do you mean he is not keen on having treatment?

I am so sorry for you and your father that you are going through this. I had 3 grand-parents die from cancer but only one when I was in touch and knew how she felt about it all.

I wish you luck and a pain free future for your dad.

kreecherlivesupstairs · 09/10/2010 18:02

Not a chance. Realisitically, how much longer does he have left. Better IMVHO to enjoy the rest of his life, rather than have treatment.
I think what ducky said is true. In a PM, a huge number of people will have died with a tumour of some sort in situ.
Good luck with your/his decision.
Kreecher -member of VUS

ppeatfruit · 09/10/2010 18:07

Hello nightcat sorry to hear about yr dad but IMO and E if he doesn't want it then that's up to him isn't it? as kreecher says.

Decorhate · 09/10/2010 18:18

If it was just chemo it might be worth checking out what drugs they would use & what side effects are - not all the same. Relative had chemo for different type of cancer & had virtually mo side effects.

Surgery is another matter though....

ruddynorah · 09/10/2010 18:18

ime the whole experience of being in hospital, and in and out of hospital, for older people makes them a lot more ill than if the weren't in. all that treatment is really going to take its toll.

is your dad able to speak for himself? do you feel he is able to decide? what are the rest of your family thinking?

2shoes · 09/10/2010 18:21

what did your dad say?
my dad didn't want an opersation(brain tumour)

throckenholt · 09/10/2010 18:22

my gut feeling is if there are any side effects of the treatment then not bother with it.

If your dad isn't keen then it is entirely his decision - just try and support him in what he wants and help him have all the information he needs to make his decisions.

Doyouthinktheysaurus · 09/10/2010 18:25

Sorry your dad is unwell nightcat.

My FIL had chemo for prostate cancer, to prolong his life rather than cure him IYSWIM. It hit him much harder than he was prepared for, side effects were horrible and they had to stop it in the end because although it was lowering his PSA count considerably, the effects were so damaging.

Overall he never really recovered from the effects of the chemo and died 9 months afterSad From what he said, I don't think he would have had the chemo if he had known the effects.

At the end of the day, if your dad is not keen, I think you have to let him make the decision.

Somtimes I think DR's just offer treatment because that's what they do, not always because it is in the best interest of the patient.

ampere · 09/10/2010 18:36

The latest governmental initiatives against age discrimination is going to see more of these dilemmas emerging.

In the same way as medicine has become a tick box exercise where everyone gets sent for all the tests, however obscure, to see which ones come back positive, a direct result of ambulance chasing litigation ( Red Top: 'The NHS missed a 1:2000000 condition in my 2 year old!!'..Payout? £20000- so now the NHS spends £200 per 2 year old per obscure test admitted just in case).

Now they do all the tests in case an 89 year old dies with, not necessarily of an as-yet not diagnosed cancer, discovered at autopsy. Family sues, thus every 89 year old in whom a condition is diagnosed must expect, so as to comply with anti-ageist legislation, to be offered the same gruelling treatment regime as a 25 year old with the same condition.

I guess someone has done the maths and worked out it's cheaper to offer it to all (many of whom will accept assuming it must be right for grandad or the doc wouldn't be suggesting it), accept that the treatment will hasten many deaths, rather than 'risk' the payouts associated with either 'missing' that cancer or deciding not to recommend the treatment.

Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 18:39

thank you all so much
We have been talking about it lots, pros and cons and had I been there, I would have perhaps asked dr a few more questions, like prognosis either way in his case. I can see that my dad has considered both sides angles and decided against it, I think it's me who is who is finding it hard to accept at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 18:44

gosh! ampere, there must be some middle line here, maybe it should be presented in a form of ALL the options...

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 09/10/2010 18:59

I can only tell you as a lay person that if it was my father and he was 89 and diagnsoed with cancer i would aks how he would like to die and how he would like to live the remander of his life? hard as it is we plan for birth but rarely for a good death Sad

my uncle (aged83) died this year of cancer, the gp missed it completly and uncle spent two weeks in hosptial and the last two days in a hospice with his family around him. Although this was hard he had a good life up uuntil he was rushed to hosptial, he had been not well for 2 months to his knowledge and had had a happy christams and new year with his family. This is really how I would like to go if cancer was going to kill me in old age

I am sorry that you have to go through Sad

Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 21:13

thank you IvyKaty & all
We will need to talk more about this, still shocked so it will have to be a step at the time.

OP posts:
Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 21:15

forgot to add, he has a lovely attitude, when asked what he is going to do, he just said, oh, I carry on as before, a day at a time...

OP posts:
FrameyMcFrame · 09/10/2010 21:15

If it is skin cancer the op might not be very invasive and may be possible without general?

(I'm just guessing here)

I would try very hard to speak to your father's consultant yourself and to find out what the pros and cons are.

Best wishes to you.

Original poster
nightcat · 09/10/2010 21:16

thanks Framey, I will be at his next appt

OP posts:
Northernlurker · 09/10/2010 21:21

I think you need to talk a lot about symptoms - what will the treatment alleviate and what will it cause? You may find that it would help with a distressing symptom though cause something which is less of an issue for your dad. Or vice versa - which would obviously not be great.
There are a lot of hard decisions to be made in treating older people because years alone are no indication of how people will take things. Some patients in their late eighties and nineties will cope with things much better than others who are 20 years younger.

moajab · 09/10/2010 23:49

My Grandad developed cancer in his mid eighties. He opted for paliative treatment rather than chemo/surgery. He lived until he was nearly 91 and in those last few years was able to meet two new grandchildren and two new great grandchildren and for much of that time felt reasonably well. I am sure for him it was the right decision not to attempt a cure. It may well be that there is treatment your Dad can have that will enable him to enjoy his last few years, rather than spend them worn down by drugs and surgery. It may well be worth while asking his consultant about these. Best wishes to both of you at this difficult time.

Kewcumber · 09/10/2010 23:54

depends on how youothers rate the cancer expertise in the hospital he is attending. Somewhere like Royal marsden I would trust absolutely, they know what they are doing (OME) and will not torment someone to death just to do what they do (IYSWIM).

You can have palliative chemo which generally is managed to produce minimal side effects but to extend life.

You need to speak to his doctor again and discuss your concerns re his heart and quality of life and what kind of chemo they are suggesting.

cat64 · 10/10/2010 00:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Lynli · 10/10/2010 00:34

I believe that sadly at 89 you have had your life, and in some way your body will tell you it is shutting down.

Far better to enjoy life and relieve suffering than to cling to it. After all even a perfectly fit 89 year old does probably not have long.

Agree cat64

brettgirl2 · 10/10/2010 09:19

I think nightcat that you have to be thankful for the fact that he is able to make the decision for himself.

And it is his decision, probably the right one.

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