Where is Angela Rayner?

[Pigeonqueen]

So vocal and present during the campaign and haven’t seen her anywhere at all today 🤷‍♀️😳… just being nosey. 🤔

Anyway, first day cabinet looks good. Let's hope it's the start of some competent adults being back in charge.

Meanwhile I am off to bed as I stayed up to watch the coverage last night and I'm seriously flagging now!!

@LaughingElderberry ignoring the question again. Zero GCSEs or O Levels. Of course you could argue you dont need them, but to say that is to undermine millions of our children who have worked hard to get them or gone back to college, at cost, to resit and resit till they got them.

Keir Starmer is making some fantastic appointments of experts in key roles - James Timpson = Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation
Sir Patrick Vallance = Minister of State in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology
Richard Hermer KC = Attorney General

Why are so many people focusing on her education. She may not have a degree where she has been required to sit in a lecture hall, or write an essay simply for the purpose of getting a mark, but evidently she has learnt on the job, listened and debated with people in parliament, done and written things which have purpose beyond getting herself a certificate at the end of it. Her experience is her qualification. Her upbringing was challenging. She did not have the same opportunities as most people in Parliament. But look how far she has come despite those challenges. Imagine what she could have achieved if she did have the same access to education and opportunities as the other MPs did. Her achievement despite those challenges just goes to show how highly intelligent and motivated she is. And as for those people complaining about her accent, why? What difference does it make whatsoever? People sound different, depending on where they were raised, it doesn’t mean that what they say is any less important or valuable than anyone else. It’s a very bizarre thing to comment upon.

Caught this just as I was about to shut my laptop.

I haven't ignored your question - I answered it. I said I didn't understand why you were so concerned about the need for a qualification so that you can get your first job - because, in the context we're discussing here, Angela Rayner got a job.

I'm not arguing that you don't need qualifications, so the rest of your point about undermining children is moot.

If you look back earlier in the thread, one of the things that AR was passionate about when getting into politics, was to effect change so that girls like her - children like her - had the help they needed to get those qualifications. She was written off at age 16 with no qualifications - she wanted (and wants) to change things so that others don't have to struggle like she did.

Anyway, definitely off to bed now!

As I recall, there wasn't the same amount of sneering when John Major became PM despite leaving school at 16 years old with only 3 O Levels (I think). He was admired for having achieved what he had despite his humble beginnings.

Is it because he didn't have a northern accent by any chance? Or because he was a man? Is AR being judged because she was a single mum?

Of course you could argue you dont need them, but to say that is to undermine millions of our children who have worked hard to get them or gone back to college, at cost, to resit and resit till they got them.

I don’t think children are undermined by someone doing well without formal qualifications. It does show that other routes are possible, which is an important part of the message we need to give our children, lest they think their lives are over without a good clutch of exam results aged 16. They need to know there are many roads to success, qualifications give you choice and it’s easier to study when you’re in school but you’re not a wash out if you need an alternative path.

Angela - I think you're bloody amazing

@Jellycatspyjamas even for vocational careers you need maths and English at pass level and have done for years. Thats my whole point. For basically any job you need to have a minimum basic standard. Seems MPs need less that a shelf stacker which is just absurd. But I'm sure we're all bored of this now. I'm finna head over to Gransnet to discuss the Showaddywaddy outfit instead.

She doesn’t have GCSEs, should she now go back and sit them to tick a box, do her achievements not count for anything - would a GCSE make her a better politician? She can’t turn back time, but she is now in a position to influence the life chances of young women who are in the position she was in. She’s clearly well respected in her party despite not having GCSE maths.

Snobby, snotty remark.

@9GreenBottles

why did you want her out?

what am I missing?

im most definitely NOT a labour fan & thought she was the only good news! (Except her diabolical dress sense)

" Zero GCSEs or O Levels. Of course you could argue you dont need them, but to say that is to undermine millions of our children who have worked hard to get them or gone back to college, at cost, to resit and resit till they got them."

For some people, this is the right course of action to get back on track to success and their tenacity is admirable. I expect AR made the logical decision that the NVQ in social care was a better use of the presumably limited time and money she had available than resitting English and Maths GCSEs. She used that NVQ to get her care worker job so the return on investment- for both AR and society- was almost immediate.
Then used her gobby fishwife/assertive* abilities (delete depending on your views) for the collective good as a union rep.

Getting pregnant at 16 wasn't the smartest move but I don't think we should hold the actions of a girl in her mid teens against her over a quarter of a century later. Yeah it would have been very impressive if she had managed to leave her non stellar secondary school with a clutch of A*s but it's really difficult for children in poverty with no books in the house and at least one parent who is illiterate to pull themselves up alone at that age unless they are some sort of Matilda-style child genius.

@LaughingElderberry u
That's interesting, so what will she do to help the 16 year olds failed by our education system struggling to re sit maths and English? Who ar? e going to be locked out of everything unlike her

I have said this on another thread today.

I really like her. However, she does not conform to any expectation of a Deputy Prime Minister- that's why she is treated so horribly, by the Tories in particular.

She's a woman, from a poor background whose mother was illiterate. She grew up on a rough council estate, went to a local comp, has not been public school educated, didn't go to Cambridge, has a broad Manchester accent, was a single mother, left school at 16 with no qualifications, was a care worker and a union organizer, has a 'lively' dress sense and can look a bit 'ungroomed and unsleek' at times.

It's outright snobbery and misogyny and pretty disgusting to read sneering, snotty, snobby remarks from women on Mnet about a woman who is much more successful than they will ever be and has achieved it all against the odds of her background. She had few life chances and created the opportunities for herself.

@Jellycatspyjamas yes but many students out there are like her, has she ever mentioned that one doesn't need maths? How is she helping the 16 year olds to have a better future when they can't pass maths?

@LuluBlakey1 that's all extremely admirable but that doesn't give her the rights on a tough childhood. People /children from all backgrounds suffer and I think it's the politics of envy and bitterness in her that I find deeply concerning.
Ironic because we are told rich Estonians can't empathise with anyone.

*How is she helping the 16 year olds to have a better future when they can't pass maths?

My DD is very unlikely to ever be able to pass Maths at Nat 4 level (GCSE equivalent). Are you saying she shouldn’t have a future despite her many other gifts and abilities? That if she can’t do it through formal education she has nothing to offer to society?

AR has shown, by example, that it’s possible to be a success through non-conventional means in her chosen profession. That alone is a huge thing for children who struggle with mainstream education. No one is going to say don’t bother with GCSEs or whatever, but an understanding that it’s not the end of the world is worthwhile too.

Without those quals what can you realistically do in the world of work? Maybe the care industry has no entry requirements but that's an exception to the rule. And thats not me being arsey, its the culture we live in and what almost all employers specify.

Rubbish- stop excusing yourself. She calls out snobbery and sneering privilege- that's all. She calls out the unfair advantages wealth gives those who have it- she wants everyone to have the same life chances. She has put up with utterly disgusting behaviour and remarks from Tories- outright lies, reporting her to the police twice and both times found to be completely unwarranted, horrible untrue accusations about supposed sexual behaviour in the commons towards Boris Johnson (as if!)
Your excuses are shameful but keep deluding yourself. You're a nasty snob and a misogynist who should be calling out the Tories who have victimised her.

Yep.

Honestly can't take this one seriously.

They lost the election, so all they've got left is trying to wind people up on the internet. Passes the time, I suppose.

If you check out her twitter you can see exactly where she was…working!

Without those quals what can you realistically do in the world of work?

Become the Deputy Prime Minister evidently.

I hugely value education, I'm a university lecturer, I think education can be a passport to so much.

None of that means that formal education is the only route to success, Angela Rayner has done it the hard way. Fair play to her.

Agree. Why is she not capable of earning an A-C in maths and English? It’s a minimum requirement for everyone else, after all.