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General election 2024

Do you still think Brexit was a good idea?

129 replies

YouWillGetThere · 28/06/2024 13:13

Sorry ask a really fiddly question, but I just wondered if I could ask what people think about Brexit, with hindsight?

I have no opinion, one way or the other, tbh.

I've really enjoyed reading so many calm, sensible, Mumsnet threads on politics in the last few weeks. The anonymity allows people to speak honestly about their views, and I've been so glad understand what people really think, and why they vote the way they do.

I would be so interested to hear what people think and feel about Brexit, now we've had a chance to see how the country has changed as a consequence of it.

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verdantverdure · 28/06/2024 22:35

deeahgwitch · 28/06/2024 22:28

Thank you @verdantverdure Flowers

No worries.

The shit in our rivers and on our beaches and yesterday's E Coli death wouldn't be allowed if we were still in the EU.

The lack of bees, butterflies and other insects is possibly down to the UK's continued use of Nicotinoids which are banned in the EU because they cause cancer.

Our level of child poverty is unacceptable in the EU too, and we'd qualify for help.

I think the same is true of our reduced life expectancy. We're the poor man of Europe now. The sick man of Europe and Brexit and the Tories are to blame.

Crispynoodle · 28/06/2024 22:37

We voted remain and were devastated when the vote was to leave. I live in NI though so one huge benefit of Brexit for us is that we're still in the single market. Lots of businesses are coming here because we're UK but also European!

DevotedSisterBelovedCunt · 28/06/2024 22:40

JugglingJanuary · 28/06/2024 20:01

@YouWillGetThere

... and this is why it can't be discussed calmly. A handful of posts in & people bring out the insults.

If you view straightforward statements of fact as insults, you're probably going to spend a lot of time being upset.

DevotedSisterBelovedCunt · 28/06/2024 22:41

deeahgwitch · 28/06/2024 22:05

I don't live in the UK.
I am not a UK citizen so I didn't have a vote.
How has it been so bad for the UK ?
Could someone please explain it to me.
Thank you in advance.

It's costing us 4% of our GDP each year, and is set to get worse. And that's only the least of it.

YouWillGetThere · 28/06/2024 22:43

deeahgwitch · 28/06/2024 22:05

I don't live in the UK.
I am not a UK citizen so I didn't have a vote.
How has it been so bad for the UK ?
Could someone please explain it to me.
Thank you in advance.

I think this (below) is sort of what happened. Apologies if I am talking rubbish. I have only an approximate idea of what is going on.

The leave people told us that the NHS was falling apart because we were paying enormous amounts of money to the EU. They said if we stopped doing that, they they would give the money to the NHS instead. Boris Johnson wrote this promise on the side of a red London Bus, which somehow made people actually believe it.

The leavers also said they would "get back control of our borders" and stop illegal immigration.

However, what actually happened is this:

All the EU migrants who were staffing the NHS went home, leaving terrible staff shortages. We also have terrible shortages of teachers in schools. The UK government had been mis-managing the NHS and schools for years, meaning that a lot of British people are not well enough or educated enough to manage the jobs that are now unfilled. So the people are poor, unemployed and unwell, and they can't get help, because the medics have gone home. That sounds like an exaggeration, but I don't think it is really.

Medically things are hard. We have massive waiting lists for NHS treatment. Many people haven't seen a doctor in person for 4 years.

The schools are in crisis, and a lot of kids are out of school with panic attacks, because they can't cope any more. A lot of teachers are finding it so hard that they are leaving.

Boris Johnson said that we would stop having EU migrants who don't speak English and that instead we would have commonwealth migrants who do speak English. Which was a pretty weird thing to say out loud. I mean how xenophonic is that? From what I can see here, the commonwealth immigrants largely decided to stay home, and who can blame them?

The situation with customs seems to have changed somehow and now there are serious shortages of medicines in the UK

There were food shortages for a while. Now I think the government can't impose proper border controls because we don't have enough customs agents to check all the food coming across the channel. So I think there is currently enough food, but it is not being properly checked at customs, as far as I can tell.

The leavers said we would get better trade deals with countries across the world, once we were free from the EU. But in fact the other countries saw how badly the leavers were treating northern Ireland, and decided to stick with prioritising the EU. We seem to be at the back of the queue for getting trade deals.

A lot of small businesses were making their money by selling to the EU, and after Brexit there was a huge amount of paperwork for them to do if they wanted to export to the EU. They couldn't do the paperwork so they can no longer make anywhere near as much money as they used to. Some have lost as much as 90% of their business.

We used to make a huge amount of money from the work of performing musicians but in order to make all that money, they needed to be able to travel without restriction across the EU. Post brexit, they lost the right to travel freely and were burdened with massive amounts of paperwork for every border crossing. So our music industry has been in terrible trouble post brexit and has lost a lot of money both for themselves and for the treasury in tax that they would have paid.

On consequence of this is that our "economy has not grown as much as it should". I don't exactly know what that means, but I think it means that we don't have as many people trading and earning money as we should.

So we have less tax being paid I think.

So we have less money to pay the NHS and the school teachers.

Also there were a lot of organisation that were very important, which we shared with the whole EU. Things like the European Medicines Agency, for example. It saved us a lot of money being able to share that with all the EU countries, rather than having to have one of our own. There were a lot of agencies like that and post-brexit I think we need to build our own copy of all those agencies which is very expensive.

The leavers promised us that we would leave the EU and then we wouldn't have to abide by silly rules that were harming us, but it didn't pan out like that. For example I think the EU banned the sale of certain kinds of fluorescent and halogen light bulbs, which is a problem for people who get migraines from LED light bulbs. Technically, now we're outside the EU we could go back to making safe light bulbs for those people. But in practice it never happened, because the country has been scrambling to cope with the fallout of Brexit ever since.

Conversely, I think the upsides of Brexit are:

  1. house prices have dipped a bit.
  2. There would be less competition for jobs amongst tradesmen, if anybody could still afford to have work done on their house.
  3. We now have a 1970s-esque excuse to be permanently miserable.

It hasn't happened yet, but I confidently expect brown trousers to become high fashion in the UK soon. (1970s fashion joke)

Sorry if any of the above is total rubbish. I just really want to understand what the heck is going on and I feel like saying what I think it going on might help to draw out information about what is actually going on from someone who knows.

Does any of what I've said above seem about right? I would really like to understand where we are.

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LiveAtVillaVillekulla · 28/06/2024 22:44

From a European point of view Britain was always the odd man out, dragging its feet, dissenting when all the other countries were in agreement, etc. Practically, you still had a border and we needed to present passports to enter, you had your own currency. You were in, but separate, always have been, always will be. Stepping into Britain was like entering a different century, with different values and expectations (even more so now). Europeans get investments in infrastructure, health, education, reigning in profiteering for energy suppliers and intra-borders transport providers from their governments. Not the case at all in the UK. It's like you paid the membership fee but never got to play. What was the point? Was it worth it for easier travel and a little export?

Crispynoodle · 28/06/2024 22:46

NoseNothing · 28/06/2024 21:25

Evolution left these people out, the very same ones will now vote reform here and Trump in the USA. People should achieve a certain level of education before being allowed to vote

YouWillGetThere · 28/06/2024 22:53

Crispynoodle · 28/06/2024 22:46

Evolution left these people out, the very same ones will now vote reform here and Trump in the USA. People should achieve a certain level of education before being allowed to vote

I don't think it's fair or kind to say that. Poor people should also get to vote. Otherwise we end up back in Victorian times with workhouses and really shockingly bad schools and social mobility. I think it's essential that everyone has the vote, but they also need to have the education to exercise the vote sensibly.

The newspapers are not always super helpful in that regard. I think we need more newspapers that present actual facts in simple language, so that people with lower levels of education can take part in the national debate on how our county should be run.

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1dayatatime · 28/06/2024 23:04

I really don't think you will find many people who are still willing to admit that they voted leave.

Clearinguptheclutter · 28/06/2024 23:09

whyhavetheygotsomany · 28/06/2024 20:48

A lot more of us would be dead from Covid if we had stayed in. We had the vaccine under our control and we all had it That would never had happened otherwise.

That theory is absolutely not true and has been debunked

mollyfolk · 28/06/2024 23:22

whyhavetheygotsomany · 28/06/2024 20:48

A lot more of us would be dead from Covid if we had stayed in. We had the vaccine under our control and we all had it That would never had happened otherwise.

Uk deaths from covid are fairly middle of the road when compared to the EU. I’m in Ireland and we had a lower % of deaths than the UK. It allowed the UK to recover a couple of months earlier from covid. That was it. Hardly worth strangling the economy for it.

All the Irish coverage at the time was saying that Brexit would be an unmitigated disaster for the Irish economy. This does not seem to have happened, for reasons I don’t understand. So that’s a plus for us anyway.

YouWillGetThere · 28/06/2024 23:25

mollyfolk · 28/06/2024 23:22

Uk deaths from covid are fairly middle of the road when compared to the EU. I’m in Ireland and we had a lower % of deaths than the UK. It allowed the UK to recover a couple of months earlier from covid. That was it. Hardly worth strangling the economy for it.

All the Irish coverage at the time was saying that Brexit would be an unmitigated disaster for the Irish economy. This does not seem to have happened, for reasons I don’t understand. So that’s a plus for us anyway.

Is it possible that you are getting the headquarters of the big companies that have left us? I reckon you're the remaining English speaking EU country so companies that want an office in Europe and want to speak English are probably coming to you now.

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mollyfolk · 28/06/2024 23:36

Yes business have moved here particularly in the financial sector. Trade hasn’t been impacted as much as it could have been either. It’s just the coverage was soo negative at the time. When brexit happened I was walking around in shock thinking that we’d be the poor men of the EU forever more. And the whole Northern Ireland thing as well, it’s worked out better than it could have.

Summertimer · 28/06/2024 23:37

I suppose there are still some out there that think it was a good ideas 🤷‍♀️

YouWillGetThere · 28/06/2024 23:38

I'm glad it's been okay for you. I'm really heartened to hear that Northern Ireland is being helped by still having trading access to the EU too. That is great news.

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RampantIvy · 28/06/2024 23:39

Churchview · 28/06/2024 14:38

I thought it was a terrible idea at the time and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind. Not one single good thing seems to have come from it for ordinary people.

Same.

Cherryana · 28/06/2024 23:46

The Brexit question was very complicated and needed an ability to understand complex and contradictory data plus context.

To put it in yes/no terms meant that over a large group we would get an average result/50:50. Which we did - only it fell slightly to the exit.

A big group should never have got the deciding vote. It was destined to be a disaster.

I do think David Cameron should be in prison for acting so recklessly with his entrusted responsibility to lead.

MariaLuna · 28/06/2024 23:48

I have no opinion, one way or the other, tbh.

Really??

Open your eyes, Brexshit has been shite for UK.

You are just an island afloat in the Sea. Basically.

Too many people still believing in Empire mode.

MariaLuna · 28/06/2024 23:59

I do think David Cameron should be in prison

Oh, don't be ridiculous.

You collectively shot yourself in the foot.

Wait till Trump gets in. THEN ye're in fucking trouble....

YouWillGetThere · 29/06/2024 00:01

I do think it would be a shame to jail people who think that democracy is a good idea. I mean if vote wrong, we can't really blame people for giving us the choice.

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SemperIdem · 29/06/2024 00:02

No, I never thought it was a good idea.

It was a brilliant way to gauge the intelligence of the general population.

Confusedbythistreat · 29/06/2024 00:30

1dayatatime · 28/06/2024 23:04

I really don't think you will find many people who are still willing to admit that they voted leave.

My most vocal leave defending friend never ever mentions it now. She says she voted remain but I think she is very defensive of her leave voting husband. It's the elephant in the room, I'm desperate to ask her if she feels there are any advantages but don't want to open up that can of worms. She does say now how lucky to be out now that Europe is becoming so much more right leaning, I'm not sure - is that an advantage being out?

I'm devastated by the whole sorry thing and agree that Cameron should be on trial for what he did. Hey, Big Nige is still here that's the laughable element, except that it isn't ....

Confusedbythistreat · 29/06/2024 00:31

MariaLuna · 28/06/2024 23:59

I do think David Cameron should be in prison

Oh, don't be ridiculous.

You collectively shot yourself in the foot.

Wait till Trump gets in. THEN ye're in fucking trouble....

Er no we didn't, 48% of us didn't want it please don't forget that

Confusedbythistreat · 29/06/2024 00:32

YouWillGetThere · 29/06/2024 00:01

I do think it would be a shame to jail people who think that democracy is a good idea. I mean if vote wrong, we can't really blame people for giving us the choice.

We can blame him for not putting rules in place re the percentage etc. he was so so confident we'd never actually vote to leave wasn't he?

YouWillGetThere · 29/06/2024 00:37

Confusedbythistreat · 29/06/2024 00:32

We can blame him for not putting rules in place re the percentage etc. he was so so confident we'd never actually vote to leave wasn't he?

That's true, and it was meant to be an indicative vote rather than a binding one, wasn't it?

I think Norway had an independence referendum but they had a much higher threshold required to trigger independence, which seemed more sensible.

I just think he couldn't conceive of a situation in which people would vote leave in any numbers. In hindsight, he probably should have checked that in advance.

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