Completely undecided who to vote for!

[Itsrainingten]

At the moment I am completely undecided who to vote for. I don't think I've ever been so unsure this close to an election before. Help me! Do I vote for what I believe in or do I vote to KTTO???

Reform have some rough edge ?

What, like Nigel Farage backing Andrew Tate??

"Vote for policies" website is good. We each did it as a family, and it came out entirely as expected for the type and demographic of the individuals in our family.

I got 33% Lib Dems 33% Conservative, Labour and Green split the rest. So still in a quandary though 😂

I am center/right social conservative though, so this result makes sense.

Not voting tory or reform is a good rule!

I’ve never said that Labour don’t have policies, it’s just I don’t trust them to have properly thought through the detail. After 14 years in opposition, I would have expected more of a “wow, they’re worth voting for” rather than the “we will vote for them to get the Tories out”, which is what seems to be coming across on many political threads.

With regards to the private school debate, in some areas it won’t impact on state schools. However, in others it could have a significant effect, especially in areas where SEN provision is required.

On the differing studies, there’s this one which looks at how the £1.5b figure may have been calculated. If that’s Labours source to cover all the teachers, mental health support, nursery places, Ofsted reform, to name but a few, then I think it’s important that that they provided full details of the costings. As far as I can see, they haven’t. Without that income, how will they improve things in state schools?

I am in no way saying the other parties are any better and others may feel differently but I can’t vote labour just to get the Tories out as to me it feels like I’m supporting the majority of their policies, which I can’t until they provide answers to unanswered questions.

For the record, no intention of voting Tory. But no intention either to blindly vote Labour.

The link you hace posted does not address the critique of the VAT proposals - only says that there will not be a big pressure on the state sector (to a large extent because of decrease in birth rates). I stand by my comments about the likelihood of the percentage of parents leaving the private sector being underestimated as the figure is based on historical data that does not reflect cost of living crisis and/or the related issue of level of fees to disposable income.
Also if the natality rate is factored to highlight that there will be spaces in state schools, that same decrease in birth rates would result in less students in private schools and less revenues than anticipated.

At an even more basic level, the supposed 1.6 billion (even if they materialise) would not be enough to recruit the number of teachers mentioned (it works out at less than 30k per teacher, from which you need to pay salary and other costs, including NI and pension contribution). Not to mention that the number of teachers is less than 1/4 that of the number of schools.

If that suffices in your mind, of course, your prerogative. Personally, Labour would have been more likely to get my vote if they had openly stated that public services are in a mess and income tax for higher levels has to come up - it would personally impact me, but I would appreciate the honesty which, after recent events, is rather important imho.

@AlwaysMoreThanMeetsTheEye "It would be a good day when politicians are honest about their background."

I agree. Starmer is. Sunak tries not to be. Ed Davey is. Farage spectacularly isn't.

I'm so uninterested in public school whining it's untrue. We can't afford tax breaks for the super rich. End of.

If you can't afford the VAT on fees, do what the rest of us do and use state education. Then spend the fees on other things....which have VAT.

Anyway, you don't like it, don't vote for them. Democracy innit.

No practical advice here OP- I am in the same boat as you. I am dissapointed and underwhelmed with the options on offer.

I don't like to Tories and they are doing terrible job.

Labour have had 14 years to pull themselves together and become an effective party. I suspect a lot of the recent public support stem out of anger and disillusionment with the Tories.

I definitely won't be voting Reform. (I did read their manifesto in case anybody asks).

Lib Dems and Greens have some interesting policies, but I think they lack detail. The NHS, healthcare and social care pledges don't touch a lot of the issues that have been raised on the recent NHS threads (but perhaps it's a good starting point, and we do need to begin somewhere).

Your response says it all about your ability to engage with economic arguments - both by failing to address any of the criticisms to the numbers behind the policy but also by assuming that only the "super rich" use private schools and that any money saved will be spend on things that attract VAT (which is not the case).

And funnily enough, sharing the reasons for not voting for a party is to be expected in a thread of this type. Specially when correcting your (rather wrong) assumption.

Only the super rich do use private schools. Most people can't afford it.

Private schools get tax breaks. I don't think they should while state schools are struggling so much.

I've already said if you don't want to vote for Labour over this, don't.

Bored now so won't be responding on schools again

Well considering I’ve never used private schools, my DC are now not school age, have no connection with anyone at a private school either, am I whining too?

The fact that you see it as a tax on the super rich shows you haven’t looked at the detail of the policy or the impact on not super rich families and their children. Also, parents won’t just increase spending in other areas, they’ll reduce hours, put more in their pensions etc, which reduces income tax.

This thread is about voters who don’t know how to vote and saying posters are whining when they bring to people’s attention flaws that they see in a policy isn’t conducive to reasoned debate. If the money doesn’t materialise, it’s a huge impact on state education.

Only the super rich do use private schools

I know this poster is no longer engaging on this thread but, just to show how false this is, I know of one private school where fees are £2k per annum. That’s less that most families spend on a family holiday so anyone who goes abroad on holiday, has a newish car etc, by this definition, is super rich.

I did the quiz thing and came out with a mixed result so it really wasn't much help. I have always been a Tory voter but not this time. Just completed my postal vote for Lib Dems.

The one thing hidden deep in their manifesto that I really decided to go with was that they plan to legalise cannabis. I needed a reason to vote for someone (rather than just against the Tories) and that swung it for me, Lol!

The average is £15,200 PA

Meanwhile the mean salary in the UK is about £30k

Most people can't afford private school. We don't need more tax breaks for the wealthy while the country is on its knees.

😂👍- I like it!

So on that basis, do you accept that there will be many not super-rich people affected by this policy then and your statement was wrong?

Sweeping statements of “only the super-rich use private schools” is the exact type of political discussion I dislike. What if picking on the super-rich doesn’t actually make any indent in to the issues currently faced by state schools? Taking your view, that’s ok because it got at the rich.

Proper reasoned discussion on the pros and cons are needed for all policies from all parties, not headline grabbing. Only that will help voters make informed decisions on where to place their vote.

Very much agree with the country being on its knees - what about actually taxing the super-rich (I leave you to define what that actually means...) rather than taxing one form of education?

As mentioned above, I would be happy to pay for an increase in income tax (although I am not super rich) that is equivalent or higher than any VAT on schools that I might end up paying - it is more progressive, provides more certainty on outcomes and is less divisive. The issue for me is not being hit in my wallet, it is that, as someone that has spent more than 2 decades working on economic policy, the numbers and rationale don't add up.

Depends what you count as "super rich"
Given the govt always use PAYE earning over 100k when wanging on about taxes, lets go with that.
I doubt many private school parents are earning below that level.

If you can afford fees you shouldn't be getting a tax break

I have a perfectly informed view on where to place my vote. We can't afford tax breaks for the wealthy.

You used the term super rich stating they were the only ones who could afford private school fees.

I think you are missing the point of everything I have said. I’ve never said don’t tax the wealthy, those very high earners etc. If we wanted to be serious about solving issues such as education, NHS, Social care etc, increase income tax and ring-fence the money to ensure long-term that the funds are there. My point is that there isn’t the evidence to show that the VAT will generate the money that they claim and, even it it generated some, it’s short-term gains as less parents will use private education.

How will state schools get the support they need if the VAT doesn’t generate the £1.5bn that Labour are basing that section of their manifesto on? Two independent reports I’ve seen so far state it won’t raise that much. The IFS said taxes will need to go up under both Tory and Labour manifestos as neither are properly costed.

I just want honest answers from politicians so the electorate can make informed decisions. No wonder people like the OP struggle to decide who to vote for.

Radical policies weren’t popular with Corbyn though. No one has an appetite for them ‘because Corbyn’ but on the other hand everyone criticises them for lack of aspiration.
The 2019 manifesto was fairly positive but totally unrealistic because the country was skint. And Green and LDs can be big spending precisely because they know they won’t win the GE.

I live in a true blue Tory seat - Kemi Badenoch, who sits on a majority of 26 or 27 thousand.

I won't be voting Tory. I will be voting tactically in the (probably vain) hope of unseating her or at least reducing her majority/keeping it to a minimum. That means voting Labour here, as far as I can see.

If no one else has suggested it, you could take one of the political quizzes that will show which party your beliefs align to mostly. Here's one

https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz

It's just a starting point to think about the issues and which ones are most important to you.

Thank you so much for posting that, it really helped me to decide and actually came out correctly.

Thanks for the link @BIWI. The food bank, crime, NHS and homeless statistics on that site should make it a lot easier to see why voting Tory is not an option.