Completely undecided who to vote for!

[Itsrainingten]

At the moment I am completely undecided who to vote for. I don't think I've ever been so unsure this close to an election before. Help me! Do I vote for what I believe in or do I vote to KTTO???

I don't understand why people are saying they wouldn't trust Starmer as far as they could throw him. I'm not a fan of Starmer, but I do think he has integrity.

An earlier poster made reference to the fact that Labour have had 14 years to turn them in to an electable/likeable party and, in my view, they will win because some people just want the Tories and are voting without looking at depth at their policies and what they are based on.

I’m no expert at economics but the one policy I have looked at in a little more depth is the VAT. No, I’m not a private school parent but know that there are major issues to resolve in state schools as I know many people who work in them. According to an independent think-tank, the figures in their manifesto to improve state schools seem to have been based on a 2011 study they used for the 2017 manifesto. The figures haven’t been updated or revised for 13 years to take into account current trends/pupil numbers etc. In addition, they used “children” in private schools, not “pupils” which is a key difference as “children” includes nursery and preschools linked to private schools, which do not form part of the VAT policy. They have therefore overestimated how many parents will be paying the additional 20% by around 65,000. Add the children with an EHCP who are now not included either (which was a quick exclusion they added as they had not considered the impact on SEN children in their manifesto) and the amount raised will be significantly less than predicted. It also won’t be put in place until 25/26 at the earliest, so maybe 2027 before VAT receipts come in. There won’t be this extra money they have promised for schools for nearly 3 years so how are they going to resolve the issues state schools are facing?

If that’s one policy that seems to have been poorly thought through and costed, what about the others? In my opinion it shows laziness and the assumption that everyone will vote for them as people want the Tories out. I will therefore vote based on who I can support, not who I don’t want in power. If that means the independent in my constituency gets my votes, then that’s what I’ll do. I acknowledge that many people feel differently about how to decide on who to vote for and that’s what living in a democracy is all about - we have that freedom to decide.

@Itsrainingten completely agree - I wish they were committing to more, particularly around renewed arrangements with the EU. But I'm hopeful that their strategy is to say nothing and alienate as few people as possible, then actually be Labour when they get in.

For me, it's about the extent to which basic values align and where my vote is most likely to make a difference. I am not inspired by the current iteration of the Labour Party but I will vote for them as that is my best hope of getting rid of our truly dreadful Tory MP.

That sums up my position as well. I don’t feel fired up by Labour in this election at all (I came out as Green in the quiz upthread) but I’ll vote Labour to try and make sure the Tory doesn’t get back in. It’s not the reason I’d hope to be voting for but if it works that’ll do. Labour will definitely form a better government that the Conservatives could.

I also have no idea who to vote for.
I know and don't really dislike our local Tory but I can't vote for him as I loathe them as a party now.
I vaguely know the labour candidate and really don't like him at all for various reasons
The Lib candidate is being parachuted in from hundreds of miles away and stands no chance here anyway.
I may well not vote for the first time ever

I think some of it is down to your own way of thinking. I’d personally rather vote tactically in my seat and not feel like my vote was ‘wasted’ but can also see others point of view that they don’t feel comfortable voting for a party who they don’t align with as much as others

Halving violence against women and girls?

Renationalising railways?

Windfall tax on energy companies?

Votes for 16/17 year old?

Building 1.5m new houses?

inews.co.uk/news/politics/all-labour-policies-election-manifesto-green-2899366?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1emzBhB8EiwAHwZZxYZXAGiGSWrY0HsTwYYrOjLPufFO2A_l7Sx0CxcZ_iqdIe5MvgdWMhoCNasQAvD_BwE

@Itsrainingten
@CassieMaddox has just listed some.

This is what worries me. I also felt uncomfortable about his attitude towards Diane Abbott for whom I have a lot of respect despite her flaws. I just don't like him, warm to him, or trust him. I don't actually know where he is left to right. Which is terrible. I align with Labour but our local MP (Tory) has been really empathetic and helpful with a significant health issue and I like her as a person.

Windfall tax on energy companies?

Votes for 16/17 year old?

These are actually grand.

How are they going to "halve violence against women and girls"? I mean it sounds great obviously, but I don't believe that one.

Rationalising railways as well - I guess that sounds great but really is that the best use of money?

1.5milion new houses is not enough.

Just my views 🙂

I think 1.5million might be more than anyone else is suggesting we build.

Nope. The Tories (ugh!) said 1.6million.

I dont agree with votes for 16/17 year olds. On a wider scale I think all the staggered ages for things should be reviewed to create a better movement into adulthood.

Agree with this completely. But kicking private schools looks good in a headline so they’re doing it anyway (not a private school parent either)!

And this is my sense of the tone at the top of Labour generally right now - the most important thing is to get elected, we’ll figure out what we’re doing once we get into Downing Street.

And the fact that Starmer keeps droning on about his father being a toolmaker is doing my head in. He’s a state educated super successful barrister. That’s what he should be talking about - the potential of the state system - but he feels he needs to downplay his success. It’s not for me.

I also think this is why we should have some form of proportional representation, so people like the OP won’t feel their voted is wasted if they’re not voting for the winner.

Agree with all the above - the frequently quoted 1.5-1.6 billion does not stand up to scrutiny , especially in current circumstances (including cost of living).

And even that would not be enough to pay for the over 6,000 teachers that Labour mentions as associated with the tax, as it works out at less than 30k per teacher (starting salary for a teacher is 30k to which you need to add other costs like NI and pension and quite clearly that amount is already proving inadequate). Also for context, there are over 24,000 schools in the UK.

Labour is tying itself in knots over their statement of not increasing income tax. The numbers do not stack up and quite a few voters are being put off by what is either purposeful misrepresentation of their plans or lack of competence in assessing the magnitude of the challenge and the solutions required.

Halving violence against women and girls?

My issue with this is why state halving? I know eradicating it is impossible but by aiming for halving looks like they want to be able to say they met a pledge rather than dealing with the actual issue. How will they determine that they have halved violence? Will they think they’ve succeeded if they have? Is this reported crimes or will they be looking at all the unreported and help/support those that fall through the net or look at longer term prevention/causes.

Thats why I don’t trust them, it’s the wording behind their policies that I struggle with.

The renationalising railways policy seems very sound, as in they're gradually going to take back companies as their franchises expire.

The 1.5 million houses doesn't seem to have any details whatsoever as to how, what kind of houses etc, which does not inspire confidence.

Increasing windfall taxes on energy companies is something most of us can get behind I think.

As is no new oil and gas licences for the North Sea.

GB Energy sounds like a good idea,xbut I think the devil's in the detail with that one.

And ending the flights to Rwanda "with immediate effect"- bit of a no brainer that one!

"Don't trust them" is different to "don't have policies"
I think they are saying halving because it's more realistic than saying eradicate. There are loads of police counting rules they could use. They did a great job of measuring and reducing stuff last time so I am hopeful.

Our posts crossed - I agree with so much of what you say.

I would venture that the "tool maker" referencing is an attempt to present himself as a man of the people (whatever that means) and his "state selective school and private school" education does not play well with the factions of his party that strongly oppose grammars and private schools. It would be a good day when politicians are honest about their background.

@BeRoseBee @AlwaysMoreThanMeetsTheEye

Totally agree, which is why I worry that some people aren’t looking at policies and are simply voting to get the Tories out.

Be very careful what you wish for. The Scottish Parliament is set up to prevent large majorities and the result is insane Green policies wagging the national dog. (self ID on gender, deposit return scheme etc, all dropped amid scandal and embarrassment).

Personally I would like a strong party with a solid majority in power. The alternative is endless horse trading while fuck all gets done. And populist idiots like Farage get voted in by people who think politics is a reality TV show.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/vat-institute-for-fiscal-studies-emily-thornberry-bridget-phillipson-labour-b2561025.html

Private schools plan is sound.

Look if you want to vote Conservative then do, noone is stopping you. This misrepresentation of "they don't have any policies" is what bothers me.

I’ve posted a link of a previous post to a study by the Adam Smith Institute that says VAT on school fees is unlikely to bring in any money at all and looked as flaws in the IFS numbers. I’d trust that over a newspaper article personally.

Isn't the Adam Smith Institute a well known right wing think tank? 🤔

They believe in free market capitalism and other things that you might describe as right wing yes. They also support drug legalisation which would be seen as more left wing I would think.

I don’t agree with everything they say but the report was interesting.

Can't vote Labour. They're going to screw me, my family and women generally.

Tories are hopeless.

Lib Dems are pointless.

Reform have some rough edges but they're my only viable vote. Probably won't bother though.