What's going on with the far right parties?

[ItsPrettyGoodReally]

Hi,

I wondered if anybody might know what it is that means far right parties are rising in so many countries?

I was really desperate for this general election so we could get rid of the tories and get a labour government. But now suddenly people are talking about the far right in the UK, and in France and Germany, and Trump seems to be doing well in America.

I do kind of understand that maybe it's a reaction against globalisation and a return to the nation state.

However, I also see the massive gap between the ultra rich and the rest of us, and that reminds me of the way things were just before WWII, which is not a good thing.

It all feels a bit 1932 to me, and I would rather that the world was keeping a calm head while dealing with all the challenges.

Does anybody out there have a way to rationalise the situation that seems like there is a safe and calm way out of all this?

I think the key is that we all (across the globe) have to keep respecting democracy, and talking, and voting, and above all keeping our best calmest heads on, but I would be glad to know what others think.

Thanks!

Anyway I'm not sure what the intent of the thread was but I'm not really up for lefty bashing so I'll leave it. Enjoy the debate

Utter bunkum from someone clearly incapable of understanding that no one has even mentioned any desire whatsoever to adopt the communism that only exists in the tiny minds of those hard enough of thinking to still be drinking the political kool-aid of 1960’s American political scaremongers.

Was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, one Adolph Hitler, “the wrong sort of communist”….or indeed any sort of socialist by virtue of his party’s misnomer??

Like I said, MAABOC.

Afghanistan is a Muslim country?

I see the Corbyn worshipper is amongst us again! srailfonaidraug how the hell are you?

I often get confused by what's the genuine or most accurate definition of communism (and socialism).

I think it's perhaps dependant on individual interpretation?

I tend to think what's genuine communism (or perhaps I'm mixing it up with socialism) is something similar to Collectivism?

FWIW I think it's more an idealistic vision than a realistic one for a society especially in modern times with more globalistion but maybe I'm wrong.

That doesn't mean though that inequality can't be addressed. It's very possible to have a society where, yes, some people are richer than others, but still ensure those with less have enough.

That aim is something imo that's fitting for both left and right wing. Because it's not only morally the right thing to do, but also the false economy approach is just that. A false economy.

Trouble is, Far Right parties come marching in with 'Life was better in the old days, and we'll make it like the old days again and then things will be better', but they don't mean in terms of cheaper housing, jobs paying enough to live on - they mean in terms of if we make everything more racist, sexist, homophobic etc it'll all go back to being good. And they can do this because, as other have pointed out, late-stage Capitalism has made things so shit for most people, but the media it supports scapegoats women, refugees and minorities to distract from whose fault it really is.

WTAF. Hitler wasn't a leftie.

Well... He was a genocidal lunatic that formed an alliance with a genocidal communist lunatic and jointly invaded Poland with them.

A lot of his policies were definitely leftwing.

I can see why you'd like to distance your beliefs from his beliefs, but I think you have more in common than you realise.

Well they all love a fantasy past. All those nice gemutlich houses for Nazi doctors working at hurting their own citizens. It’s the ugliness of the ideas wrapped up in a world that never existed. Makes people feel better.

The “communist lunatic” Hitler also went to war against you mean, the one that was about as socialist as him??

What an utterly stupid comment.

No. Imagine if he has been. All that local difficulty with Stalin and millions of Russian lives saved by a common respect for Marx. Boring shit stirring from posters who are presumably just lifting it from the “opinion playbook” of choice.

I’ve enjoyed the contributions where people have tried to show some consideration of the UK and our society. Shame if it goes away from that.

I think that's a huge shame.

England was where the Magna Carta was written - revolutionary for its time - and the modern British Parliament is one of the oldest continuous representative assemblies in the world.

Manchester was the birthplace of the industrial revolution, which transformed the world and improved standards of living

Despite being a small country of just 67 million, we have 3 of the top-10 universities in the world and UK scientific and medical research has been historically - and still is - incredibly strong. Newton - who discovered the laws of motion and gravity (and invented the telescope) was born in Lincoln. Darwin, the father of Evolution, was born in Shrewsbury. Charles Babbage, Ada Lovelace and much later Alan Turing - who created computers - were all Londoners. One of the scientists who discovered DNA was British. The first IVF baby in the world was born in Oldham. We created one of the first covid vaccines in the world.

We've created several genres of music (Beat, Metal, Britpop, and others) and gave the world The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Radio head and The Clash.

The epitome of literature - Shakespeare - was English, and that English writing strength continued in Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, CS Lewis, George Orwell, Roald Dahl, JK Rowling and many more.

If you want to give your DS a positive English identity, just open your eyes!

No, he was a far-right genocidal nut-job…. and no more socialist than Stalin.

That’s the point.

Could we not engage the outer looniverse on Hitler. The arguments posted re socialism would be marked down in a GCSE history exam. It’s just a wind up

No it's not. There are differences between UK culture and Afghan culture, particularly regarding the role of women in society.

That's not racist. Someone in Afghanistan would say exactly the same. They would see their culture as preferable (not the Taliban - but traditional culture) and we see ours as preferable. That's how culture works.

It's completely blinkered to not recognise that different cultures are different.

If you can't have a sensible conversation about what that means for immigration, then that's quite simply putting your head in the sand. It results in a failure to plan and make sure that immigration actually works for the UK - which is how the right wing becomes appealing to voters who only see the negatives in their lives.

Someone posted what looks like a far right protest in Holland recently. Didn’t look like football supporters either.

I believe the majority of immigrants coming into the UK are from India and Poland. It could have changed since I last looked though. Am happy to be corrected.

Hitler and certain of his cronies were popular in Germany.

My grandad grew up in Bad Godesburg and south Germany and recalls as a child seeing German soldiers coming back from the front during and after WW1 and also recalls seeing pawn shops owned by Jews piled high with shoes whilst German kids who were barefoot ran around outside. I’m not saying that was an excuse for what happened. Actually my English nana when she traveled to Germany from London with my grandfather before outbreak of WW2 to get my great grandmother told me the Germans were lovely but were asking them “are we going to go to war with you?” The Germans had no idea what was happening.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain

Jewish Germans were German, and many of the German WW1 soldiers including those in alot of poverty afterwards were Jewish.

Germany had one of the most integrated and secular Jewish populations in Europe at the time. And there were plenty of very rich businesses (much wealthier than pawn shops) owned by non Jews at that time. The stereotype of the 'rich Jew' is racist antisemitism. It's as ridiculous as suggesting all Catholics are rich because the Vatican is wealthy.

Incidentally, one of the Nazis first victims were disabled people. Including veterans disabled when fighting for Germany in WW1.

On a related note, it wasn't only Jewish people he was racist about. Relevant to what's been discussed on here about Hitler and Russia. It was less about political leanings, and more about his racism towards Slavic people.

Just as he was racist about Jewish people, he was also racist about Slavic people. He wanted 'lebensraum', a racist and colonialist takeover of eastern European land, including Poland and Russia, (for Germans to move to) because he saw Slavic people as 'inferior'.

Edited. You mean the protesters are far right.

@cupcaske123

"WTAF. Hitler wasn't a leftie"

Well when you look at points 11 to 16 of the Nazis 25-point Program then they look very left wing to me:

11. Abolition of unearned income from debt interest

12 Confiscation of war (WW1) profits

13.Nationalisation of all companies

14. Profits from trade shared out

15. Expansion of old age welfare

16. Creation of a middle class and communalisation of warehouses.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NationalSocialistt_Program

But you said this...

The majority of immigrants aren't Muslim men. The majority of people coming over on the small boats from France, are from Afghanistan

And murdering the disabled? (Wonder how long it would've taken before that was extended to the elderly. Especially as it's not uncommon to develop disability or health issues in older age).

The racism (against Slavic people, Romas, and Jewish people, and viewing black people as 'inferior' to a 'white Aryan race') kind of screams far right too.

As does the homophobia.

All those groups were targeted for murder and persecution by the Nazis.

Definitely none of that is leftwing. Or everyday rightwing for that matter. Extreme far right facism, more like.

The majority of immigrants coming into the UK are from India and Poland.

The majority of those coming over on the small boats, are from Afghanistan. Yes, those coming from Afghanistan are Muslim men

@Foggyfield

I would argue that the biggest threat to democracy comes from the left and socialism where ever increasing state spending eventually results in fiscal collapse which in turn results in dictatorship (extreme left or extreme right wing):

There is a great quote by Alexander Tytler in 1780:

"democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship"