What's going on with the far right parties?

[ItsPrettyGoodReally]

Hi,

I wondered if anybody might know what it is that means far right parties are rising in so many countries?

I was really desperate for this general election so we could get rid of the tories and get a labour government. But now suddenly people are talking about the far right in the UK, and in France and Germany, and Trump seems to be doing well in America.

I do kind of understand that maybe it's a reaction against globalisation and a return to the nation state.

However, I also see the massive gap between the ultra rich and the rest of us, and that reminds me of the way things were just before WWII, which is not a good thing.

It all feels a bit 1932 to me, and I would rather that the world was keeping a calm head while dealing with all the challenges.

Does anybody out there have a way to rationalise the situation that seems like there is a safe and calm way out of all this?

I think the key is that we all (across the globe) have to keep respecting democracy, and talking, and voting, and above all keeping our best calmest heads on, but I would be glad to know what others think.

Thanks!

@IDoHaveACrystalBall it was very very bad. Not surprised it was not circulated. It was hostile. And it bodes very badly for any party that does not deal with the left behind. These people heard Starmer out. But if we don’t get real about places like Grimsby there will be a time when they will just go for the simple far right answers.

@DogInATent I think immigration was a designated "issue" way before the millennium. From the 1960s all parties included it in their manifesto, and people wanted to know what their policies were on it. Don't forget Powell's "rivers of blood" speech was in 1968. Moseley ofc was active in the 1930s. This thing has long roots.

It always catches hold in the places no one would want to migrate to though.

Perhaps some decent form of proportional representation would be a good thing - allow those who follow Reform and other extreme parties a chance to get some seats so their voters feel as if their voices are heard.
The first past the post system will not benefit Farage - even if he is on a tie with the tories in terms of % of votes, he will not win many seats.
I was never a fan of proportional representation, because it does allow fanatics a chance, but I recognise that a lot of people feel very disenfranchised with both main parties and as others have said, this causes real problems in communities.
In terms of the shouty left though, have none of you been listening to Penny Mordant in these debates? She is very shouty.
Shouting is happening on all sides.

It was nothing like the issue it has become. It was very marginal.

Here's the relevant section from the 1987 Conservative Manifesto:

"Immigration and Race Relations
Immigration for settlement is now at its lowest level since control of Commonwealth immigration first began in 1962. Firm but fair immigration controls are essential for harmonious and improving community relations.
We will tighten the existing law to ensure that the control over settlement becomes even more effective.

We now require visas for visitors from the Indian sub-continent, Nigeria and Ghana, both to protect genuine travellers and to guard against bogus visitors seeking to settle here illegally. We are tackling the problem of those who fraudulently pose as refugees and who seek to exploit Britain's long tradition of giving refuse to the victims of persecution.

We want to see members of the ethnic minorities assuming positions of leadership alongside their fellow citizens and accepting their full share of responsibility. Racial discrimination is an injustice and can have no place in a tolerant and civilised society. We are particularly concerned about racial attacks. They require effective and sympathetic attention from the police and we have ensured that increasingly they receive it.

Progress towards better community relations must be on a basis of equality. Reverse discrimination is itself an injustice and if it were to be introduced it would undermine the achievement and example of those who had risen on their merits.
Immigrant communities have already shown that it is possible to play an active and influential role in the mainstream of British life without losing one's distinctive cultural traditions. We also want to see all ethnic minorities participating fully in British culture. They will suffer permanent disadvantage if they remain in linguistic and cultural ghettos."

Compare the moderate language to what you hear now from Cabinet Ministers.

In terms of the shouty left though, have none of you been listening to Penny Mordant in these debates? She is very shouty.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Yes, thats how I saw it too.
I like it as a strategy also it shows he is committed to democracy over power.

The fall of the Red Wall started in the 70s as class became less entrenched in voting behaviour. There's been a gradual loosening of a partisan attachment to a particular party.

New Labour alienated traditional voters as they tried to attract middle class voters and moved right on the economy. Thatcher called Blair her greatest achievement.

People have been angry for years about wages being driven down by globalization and the mass importation of cheap labour. As well as serious underinvestment.

There is no such thing as "indigenous culture" in the UK. Talking about "indigenous" UK people is a nonsense made up by far right to try to parasitise issues faced by real indigenous populations in for example Canada or Australia.

Britain is a land of migrants. Our society and culture has been built on repeated waves of migration, both inwards and outwards. This idea that there's some kind of "British culture" that's under threat doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

@DogInATent sure the language was more moderate, as was common at the time. Populism wasn't so much of a thing in the UK back then. There are a few familiar words and phrases though - the idea that some people are "bogus", that "reverse discrimination" is an issue as deserving of attention as discrimination itself and that all of these controls are merely "firm and fair". Also the actual legislation itself was not moderate at all, blatantly favouring white people and entrenching a two tier system that disadvantaged people of colour regardless of all the reasons relating to Empire horrors that brought them to the UK.

No such thing as British culture. What on earth are you talking about?

Can you give examples of "British" culture?

Go on then. What is the "indigenous British culture" that is being "diluted" by "incomers"?

It's my contention that this is a soundbite that sounds appealing but means nothing. If "indigenous British Culture" is truly a thing it should be possible to describe it and the impact of incomers on it.

Good old British culture, with its German royal family, Jewish fish and chips, Indian curry, German classical music, American popular music ...

Well @CassieMaddox I know you didn't ask me. but I suppose you could say that the indigenous culture of the Celts was diluted by the Romans and then the Anglo Saxons?

Is that what you meant @cupcaske123 ?

Only in England!

Sure. Football. English breakfast. Sunday Roast. 1000 years of monarchy. Parliamentary government. Class. The pub.

And the descent of the thread begins...

True!

Hmm. A 1000 years of "British" monarchs? I think you need to check your history books!

Here is a handy link.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/list-of-British-monarchs-2059315

TBF the British fried breakfast - in all its variants across the four nations - is an absolute corking contribution to culinary culture. Who would choose a bloody croissant in the morning over sausage, bacon, eggs, haggis etc?

OK, good start. I hate football. My partner, daughter, mother and sister are vegetarian (no full English or roast for them!) And my in laws are supportive of abolishing the monarchy. Does that mean we aren't part of "indigenous culture" despite being white British?

This is a good point. 😂👏

England hasn't been English since 1066.

I gave examples of British culture. Apparently it doesn't exist.

It's not me who needs to check my history books. There have been 63 monarchs of England and Britain spread over a period of approximately 1200 years.