What's going on with the far right parties?

[ItsPrettyGoodReally]

Hi,

I wondered if anybody might know what it is that means far right parties are rising in so many countries?

I was really desperate for this general election so we could get rid of the tories and get a labour government. But now suddenly people are talking about the far right in the UK, and in France and Germany, and Trump seems to be doing well in America.

I do kind of understand that maybe it's a reaction against globalisation and a return to the nation state.

However, I also see the massive gap between the ultra rich and the rest of us, and that reminds me of the way things were just before WWII, which is not a good thing.

It all feels a bit 1932 to me, and I would rather that the world was keeping a calm head while dealing with all the challenges.

Does anybody out there have a way to rationalise the situation that seems like there is a safe and calm way out of all this?

I think the key is that we all (across the globe) have to keep respecting democracy, and talking, and voting, and above all keeping our best calmest heads on, but I would be glad to know what others think.

Thanks!

What's going on with the far right parties?

The inevitable result of usual divide and conquer tactics being used to scapegoat immigrants for the decades of decline caused by the corrupt incompetence of puppet governments with a common sole agenda of remaining in power in order to continue serving the interests of their asset-stripping donors and sponsors who own everything, including the media.

The rest is simply the toxic mix of political and media liars and con artists making full use of their sole "talent" of only needing to open their mouth for garbage masquerading as joined-up thinking to spew forth from it, and catastrophically dim-witted daily fail victims only too happy to accept the ensuing gaslight to go fix their gas leak by.

As a left wing person I think we are getting it wrong on culture. England is not a monolith, it has many subgroups: but to ignore broader ideas about England and thins about which are good or widely enjoyed here is to really dismiss what may attract a lot of migration at all.

I also really dislike the “I am an immigrant and I can pass the life in the UK test but the natives can’t or as above, can’t speak English in a particular way”. This kind of comment immediately pits two groups against each other. But I do see it on Mumsnet.

cupcaske123 · Today 14:19
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What do you think is going to happen?

An escalation of 6th January. More violence in more cities, which he will do his utmost to fuel.

We did. There was the debate with Sunak and Starmer set in Grimsby. But the sense of anger even on the final broadcast with Sunak was palpable. He did not understand them, and they were angry with him. Polite, but angry. Outside, much less polite and more angry.

Do you think part of our problem is that "truth" is now such a complicated concept? I mean there are so many opinions in the media, that it gets really hard to pin down what is actually objectively true.

Would it be possible for you to post a link to the video. I would like to see.

I don't think so, culture evolves over time. The culture of the 80s was far different from the 60s. The culture of the 60s was far different from the 40s.

That kind of comment doesn't pit groups against each other it highlights how ridiculous an idea it is that there is something called 'English culture' when the culture of the Country has always been fluid.

A fluid culture is one that is able to cope with change and be tolerant of others differences. If you're not embracing it you're not 'English' in a cultural sense.

You are talking about skilled migrants with much to offer. They’ll head to large cities, specifically London and the Home Counties. They to a certain extent have a choice.
Most of the migrants to our northern economically deprived town on the other hand have minimal English, low educational attainment and skills, religiously conservative, often traumatised by war. That’s the reality and I agree that no one wants to migrate here by choice. Because of the relatively low cost of living it’s easier to attract this type of migrant than economically productive ones eager to integrate. This is why resentment builds in certain areas, left behind towns hit by austerity too, scarce resources, and very visible migrants using those resources.
I don’t agree with this btw but I’m hearing it from loads of different sources.

Yes he's a dangerous freak. He's moved the Overton window and exposed an ugly underbelly. Perhaps the government will be better prepared this time round.

Are you talking about the Resettlement Scheme?

@cupcaske123 yes. Gateway scheme I think. Got a feeling that’s been discontinued though.

Resentment has always existed in these areas.

I think that immigration policy has meant that immigration has been mishandled, not giving enough consideration to infrastructure and services compared to the number of people migrating. But deprived northern towns have been resentful and mismanaged for decades regardless of immigration.

The question, I think, is "what do we do to move forward positively?" That's where it gets fiddly.

The North has been royally screwed over since the 80s. I'm surprised Sunak didn't get lynched. People were so desperate they voted in Johnson.

Absolutely! I didn't say that culture is static and doesn't take from immigrants - in fact I think I mentioned that the cultures merge over time.

In fact our openness to other cultures, and our sense that people can become British by choice rather than blood - is itself a very distinctive part of British culture.

I'm from 2 different cultures, and I can absolutely assure you that there's a distinctive British culture. You probably just don't notice if it's the only culture you know from the inside.

There's certainly an element of cultural activities like pubs, cream teas and football. Not that you do/like all of them, but the fact that they are 'a thing' - and you understand that - gives you a sense of connection to other UK people.

But to me it's more about attitudes and values. Not that everyone has the same ideas - but we have a shared understanding about what the political questions are, and an understanding that we might have different opinions on them. And we generally have similar underlying assumptions about the world, similar things we accept without question. Those assumptions/things we don't question are not 'simply human' or the same worldwide: they are cultural.

You can pick holes in what I've said. But it is a real thing. And it matters.

@cupcaske123 yes, and that has nothing to do with immigration. Look at the areas where reform is taking hold. Nobody is migrating to Grimsby.

Also fyi the Grimsby fishing industry collapsed because the fishermen themselves sold off their quotas to Spanish fishing boats.

Are you seeing things? I didn't say it was down to immigration.

British culture doesn't have to be homogeneous to be real. The very fact that there is eg a North/South divide: our awareness of that history - and our awareness of our place in it - is part of our culture.

As a child it comes as a surprise to visit another part of Britain and discover everybody speaks with an accent. It doesn't occur to a child that it is actually them that have the accent.

It is the same with culture. When you live in Britain, it is easy to think that Britain doesn't have a culture, but we do and it is obvious to anybody from another culture.

I'd expect all reasonably intelligent adults to realise this simple fact.

When people start commenting that Britain doesn't have a culture, it says a lot about the person posting.

Its worth pointing out that Keir Starmer is a member of the Trilateral Commission and was invited to join when he was in Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so quite some time before he became leader. This secretive bunch believe there is too much democracy and the world would be a better place if we just left it to the experts to decide how we live our lives. People need to do their research into this group. I'm no conspiracy theorist but what I've read concerns me a great deal and we are about to put this man into Downing Street with a huge majority. He lied his knackers off to take control of the Labour Party. I do not trust him one bit. Neither should anyone else. Who people vote for is up to them but once he's in power, it will be too late. Better Labour than the Tories but if we give Starmer a massive majority, we'll be giving away what limited democracy we still have. Noam Chomsky has called out the TC time and time again. I think he's someone worth listening to.

Yes. It’s not about being homogenous. We have two different sets of rules for rugby for example. Unpicking why would tell you a lot about England.

Nobody wants a static list of things that are English or British. And that list might change or certain elements might. But communities, a sense of belonging, sense of pride, well the left is too quick to dismiss why people are like that. In fact it is deep within them. At the end of my road there is a pub with a Union Jack in the window. A simple person might assume racial hatred. In fact it is the local mods pub with a mixed crowd. Are they proud of their pub and their community? Yes. That’s one example

The phrase 'far-right' is kind of meaningless. The liberal-left apply it to pretty much anyone who disagrees with them. If you're not one of us, and don't mindlessly regurgitate liberal-left views, then you're 'faaaar-right'.

For a start, many of these so-called 'far-right' parties bitterly disagree with one another. Some are free marketeers, for example, while others want a big state. And I don't believe for one moment that their voters are genuinely 'far-right'. The vast majority just want a clampdown on immigration. Plus, they're sick of having their culture and identity sneered at (I sometimes think the history section of Waterstones ought to be re-named the "how Britain ruined the world and is responsible for everything bad that ever happened" section). Other than that, most have no interest in genuine far-right policies. Few want capital punishment, for example, or the persecution of gay people, or military expansion.

Those on the left seem to think they've got a monopoly on goodness. According to them, everything is very simple. Politics is a spectrum moving from left to right, and the further right you move, the more terrible a human being you are. But in what sense are the left 'good'? Are they more tolerant? Don't make me laugh. Middle of the road conservatives are FAR more tolerant than the left. Are they more humane? Again, don't make me laugh. 100 million people died in the last century while various psychopaths and fanatics tried to impose communism on them. Bertrand Russell once met Lenin, and was shocked to see him throw back his head and laugh as he described the poor peasants hanging the rich ones in Russian villages. Do they care more about freedom? Are you flippin joking? Dictatorship is a part of Marxist ideology. You seize control of the state, then you install a proletarian dictatorship, and then, gradually, the state withers away and you have utopia (after a few million people have been liquidated, of course). It isn't the 'faaaar-right' who are trying to shut down debate in universities. And it isn't the 'faaaar-right' who are demanding classic novels be removed from libraries.

Exactly what I was trying to get to, thank you.
There is a pervasive myth in far right rhetoric that "British Culture" (or sometimes "English Culture") is an unchanging, tangible thing. Like a rock, that is getting eroded by migrants.
Its just a complete fiction, and quite dangerous, because its such a seductive idea for something nebulous.

So people say "valid concerns about diluting the indigenous culture" and it seems reasonable. But pick it apart and there is nothing there. Unfortunately, to me what it always seems to boil down to is not wanting to be around people from different ethnicities.

What I find extra weird is a lot of the towns where this is a huge issue are very white. So they are taking the easy option of blaming "immigrants" for what is actually the Government’s choice not to invest in their communities. Its really frustrating because it ends up being turkeys voting for Christmas, like Brexit. The EU was putting investment in to some of these kinds of communities. But they got persuade to vote leave because of seductive idea of "EU fishermen are why Grimsby is run down - stealing our fish". Now it turns out that's not the case, so it's "immigrants are why Grimsby is run down". Whereas the reality is, it's chronic under investment in that community. But that can't be captured in a snappy sound bite.

I said it doesn't have an "indigenous culture" that can be "diluted by immigrants".
That's not the same thing at all.

Although as a Northerner now living in the South I still would argue there isn't an overarching "British culture"

England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all have their own cultures, traditions and language. Within each country there will be differences between regions. Lumping them all together as a "British" culture does not recognise that diversity.

I'd expect all reasonably intelligent adults to realise this simple fact and it says a lot about the person posting if they don't.

ETA: I also agree with @FlakyShaker's point about fluidity.