Tonight's debate 7.30pm BBC 1

[BastardisMendacem]

Anyone fancy a discussion thread?

Lovely photo, but surely Ange should have worn a trouser suit ? Dress for the job you want and all that ?

Thirded!
I live about as far away from Scotland in the UK as is possible unfortunately! On the south coast. Though many of my ancestors were Scottish!
So I know very little about Scottish politics. Only vaguely heard of this guy before.
But yes, he stood out as the best performer, by a country mile 😊

I think it was meant to be abject. There's being a bit snobby about someone else's vocabulary skills- and there's the reasonable expectation that uk leaders know the difference between common words.

It’s a lazy assumption to suggest the issue is her gender.

I suspect it’s more to do with class than gender, her background is more representative than most politicians to date which is likely to be more helpful in terms of understanding the actual challenges of most people than privately educated, wealthy politicians. There was a brilliant example of that on here the other day when someone was trying to suggest that it’s not just wealthy people who go to private school and went on to explain that they’d had to tighten their belts to save thousands each month towards a private education for their child because they felt it had helped them hugely. They did not seem able to comprehend that for many people that’s absolutely not ever going to be possible. I don’t think through any ill intent but purely naivety, even with challenging they couldn’t get their head around it.

We are headed for the perfect storm
This is exactly how I felt on hearing that the conservatives won the last few elections, and Brexit. So incredibly sad and worried about the future of the country, particularly the most vulnerable, and those fears have been realised. A change is needed, I don’t know if labour are the ones to do it but as the only realistic alternative to the Tories who have made this country a very worrying place for many people, I hope they do win.

Ey?

I didn’t watch much of it, too shouty and pointless.
The clips of the head shaking guy every time Farage said anything quite frankly embarrassing from the BBC. Mordaunt bad, Raynor worse.
Did Raynor go on about the need to rebuild Gaza? I.E throw UK tax money at Hamas?

That used to be the case. But not anymore. During the Corbyn years, yes. But, many on the left now believe she's sold out. She supported and defended Labour's choice to oust Faiza Shaheen, which is very disappointing. I feel sorry for her in a way, as she probably feels conflicted. But, I was very upset that she peddled the false narrative about Faiza 😔
However, some of the posts about her on this thread have been very personal, and that's wrong. It's fine to critique someone's politics. But, personal attacks are never OK. I'd even think that if they were levelled at Tories!
I'm very left-wing.

However, some of the posts about her on this thread have been very personal, and that's wrong. It's fine to critique someone's politics. But, personal attacks are never OK. I'd even think that if they were levelled at Tories!

Hang on, Boris, Truss and Sunak have had loads of personal attacks, particularly Boris. Not to say he didn't deserve a lot of it...

Frankly there's a lot of selling the person as the product in politics. They're not selling an IT product, they're selling their ability to represent the country, including at international summits.

Rayner doesn't have it (slightly ironic how many of her supporters on this thread haven’t spelt her name correctly). The gobby in your face approach might work well when you're doorstep canvassing but not as a senior member of the cabinet. Starmer lacks charisma but he’s sufficiently statesman like at least.

I just watched it back and it wasn't said.

I was shouting at the telly:"abject. It's an abject failure. " It's a bit like when teachers who aren't very bright and don't understand words end up being line managers of departments who use lots of words

Yes! See also use of 'myself' and 'yourself' a lot. 😂

👏

It was - right at the beginning of the programme.

If you don't want to believe me that's fine but I made a point of listening. It was the part where they talked about the audience also continuing undecided voters and then explained they had a spin room.

Obviously you are determined to believe there is an in built BBC left wing bias so nothing I say will land. You can (not) ear what you want to (not) hear.

But given the audience really had very little involvement compared to eg QT, I hardly think it makes much difference.

BBC was never going to allow this.

It is.

Those two words aren't very convincing. I have raised it as a topic of discussion with various friends and colleagues and only one has any interest at all in it.

I also asked a couple of political friends who are canvassing for their parties. They're really not having it brought up on the doorstep so far.

Were there any questions on building social housing (forget council owned housing, that’s a dead duck) or the shitty waterways and beaches?

Well I watched it all and - love him or hate him - Farage did really very well. He is an excellent speaker. Second best was the SNP guy but obviously their policies are insane. Mordaunt and Rayner were ok but nothing landed and neither of them are gifted orators. The other three were woeful. The hand shaking at the end that excluded Farage made them all look petty.

I am happy as I shall not be voting for any of these parties - just found that we have an SDP candidate in our ward so that's where my vote is going.

The bbc is on the hook for the conspiracy of silence leading to a cascade of harms as much as any political party, so I expect a degree of self interest continue to play out on this shit.

Agreed. The gender thing is a side show to keep people distracted from real politics.
Gender discussions will have a 1% political draw, immigration or NHS 60%, despite the right wing press and radio pushing the former for all its worth.

EU elections finish soon, we’ll see if the shift is as predicted

And yep to the rest, but more about the actual policies than delivery. They will be an issue

It's important to know if party leaders are so hobbled by their politics that they would say that up is down to play the game.

I think you mean 'women's rights' not gender.

Yes - and I want to see them say it. People need to know exactly what they are voting for.

I don't ever like personal attacks. It's never right to attack someone's accent or mannerisms or whatever involuntary trait (in my humble opinion)
I'm very left-wing. I'm not voting Labour, as they've moved too far right. I voted for them last time.
I do personally think Angela Raynor has sold out, and I was very disappointed with her stance on Faiza Shaheen. I used to love her, in the Corbyn era.
I don't personally think she performed that well last night. Neither did Penny Mordant (I mean politically) It really was a night for the smaller parties, and the parties of the devolved nations. I was especially impressed by Stephen Flynn, as mentioned up thread.
To be honest, the reason I made the comment about personal attacks on Angela, is that I actually felt a bit guilty saying the things I said, and need to make it clear that I'm referring to politics and not personality.

You’re right, that was the original comment and I’ve bundled gender in with it.