Why are private school parents punished when they remove a financial burden from the taxpayer?

[FishPhoods]

My DC do not go to private school, if I could afford it I would.

However - this policy makes no sense to me. I'm a TA. The school I work in has huge class sizes and is overstretched.

Starmer is saying that the VAT he proposes to add to private school fees will be channelled into the state education system. However we use the facilities of the local private school (swimming pool, sports fields) two days per week for no charge. If they lose their charitable status we lose access to that.

Also any money gained from VAT will potentially be outweighed by more pupils joining from the local private - or pupils who would have potentially gone but now won't. It costs the taxpayer roughly £8k per year to educate a child in the state system - we won't gain anything like that from VAT to cover the "new" pupils we acquire from the private system.

The way I see it if the rich can afford to or choose to pay for their children's education it's one less burden on the taxpayer. And making schools more expensive just makes them more elitist surely? Financially I just don't see how this makes any sense - is it just a populist thing as people generally feel aggrieved that some have the option of private education when some don't, so it's a way to punish them?

A tax break is a perk, not a right.

I read that it’s illegal to charge private schools vat in Europe. Is this true?
Can someone please tell me another country in the world where private schools pay vat? Thank you

Why don't you look it up yourself? No offense but if you're interested you can do the same as anyone else

I'm getting tired of these half arsed attempts to sway the election, Mr 2 day old account crested to argue the toss on a Tory talking point.

I don’t think they do. The EU doesn’t allow it

We’ll likely be the only ones

Some countries do tax rebates to lower the state burden

Look at that, Labour doing what the Tories couldn't for years - proving an actual Brexit benefit!

Depends if it worsens education outcomes

Which is probably why other countries avoid it

Err -no.
I am a teacher in an indie and no way would I go (back) to state! Much better working conditions in private eg only teach 20/30 periods/smaller classes/better pay and do better pension (TPS) /free breakfast and lunch/unlimited printing…
If private schools have to compete for pupils they will make even greater efforts to reward and retain the best teachers.

Not if a sole trader, self-employed or member of partnership.
But if a limited company, tuition counts towards the VAT threshold

Yes that's right 👍

Nothing you've listed is outlandish nor beyond the realms of an adequately funded state school system. You, your colleagues and our children deserve that.

That's surely the wrong analogy? It would be the customers who would benefit by avoiding paying VAT on the tree services. The business itself would have to pay VAT where applicable.

If it were a registered charity, the business would not have to charge VAT on its services, so its customers wouldn't pay VAT, but it WOULD have to pay VAT on it's own purchases - and, of course, as it wouldn't be registered for VAT, it couldn't reclaim any of the VAT it pays on goods and services purchased.

To address your last point, if a school is a registered charity then it is not run "for profit". It can pay salaries to staff and can use its income for its declared charitable purposes, which is the education of children. So, if a school has more income than it needs to pay all its staff and all its ongoing bills and charges, it can legitimately use the surplus income to further its charitable purposes - updating old buildings, installing new equipment etc.

A charity does not make any profit. There are no shareholders and no dividends paid. All monies go to the purposes of the charity. It's monitored by the Charity Commission and schools have to submit audited accounts and a report annually.

@UserNumber56 The most sensible comment I've read all day!

Makes you wonder why all other reasonable nations don't do it though, no?

It does sound like something Leave would put on the side of a bus "TAX EDUCATION!"

Do you think first class travel should be banned too? Business class travel? Private health care? Private dentists? More expensive cars? More expensive houses in nicer areas?

Do you think they should all more expensive be banned, so people can’t pay for anything nicer? It’s all privilege.

Yes , unfortunately one of the plans at our school (husbands a governor at) is to drop bursaries as they can’t justify them and then passing the cost on to the other parents. It is a shame though about this. Maybe the government could pay for them somehow to continue with this?

Decades ago I worked as a tax accountant in one of the Big Four London offices. It was an eye opener. I was a Labour voter and had always believed it was fair to have high taxes for high earners. What I saw at work was that when people believe their own earnings and the profits of the businesses they work for are being taxed at too high a level they are willing to go to great lengths to avoid that tax. They pay accountants and lawyers to get their tax bills down. They consider moving abroad. They try every trick in the book - and the end result is that the tax take from these eye-catching very high tax rates is not all that much, and public services don't get the funding they need.

If, however, tax rates are kept down to a level that most people will accept as fair, you end up with far more tax collected because people are more likely to just pay it.

I'm not convinced at all this VAT scheme is going to raise any significant sums. It's a sop to Labour Party members and supporters who would really like private schools abolished and who were agitating for them to be stripped of their charitable status. Neither of those things is going to happen. This is their next best effort to do something that will get publicity and approval from the private school haters.

If implemented, this VAT scheme will probably mean some children are moved from private schools to state, and some others who would have been sent to private schools now aren't. Only a very naive person would think that their parents will now send them to the nearest state school without carefully checking it out first. The knock on effect will be that house prices and short-term rentals round high performing state schools will become even more unaffordable. More middle class parents will find religion and apply to religious schools. Others will pay for music and sports tuition to help their children get secondary places reserved for those with special talents in those areas. The idea that these parents will send their children to schools in or near special measures and will muck in to help turn those schools around is risible.

(I hope nobody's going to be stupid enough to accuse me of being a Tory Party plant. I've never voted Tory in my life and I'm not starting now. I'll probably vote Labour, but not with much enthusiasm. UK politics is deeply uninspiring at present.)

My dsis and dbil were very left wing when they were young and poor.

Amazing how their views changed once they became home owners and could afford nice holidays.
It’s easy to give away others people’s money. Not so easy when it’s your own.

I’m a labour supporter but I’m still in favour of private education.

Politics of envy, nothing else.

Check with MN if you like. My account is an old one and I name change often. Go ahead and check and let me know what they say.

And why on earth would I be keen to sway the election? I am not voting for any of these parties. Can you genuinely not comprehend that other people may have a different view to yours?

(I hope nobody's going to be stupid enough to accuse me of being a Tory Party plant. I've never voted Tory in my life and I'm not starting now. I'll probably vote Labour, but not with much enthusiasm. UK politics is deeply uninspiring at present.)

They will.

Ha! You have no idea.

I’m so fed up with people telling others not to vote conservative. People are so bitter about people who happen to be wealthier than they are. So bitter they’re happy about a ridiculous tax on them, which will only end up hurting school pupils (at private and state). But the sheer glee at it overrides that. Awful. Makes me want to vote Tory.

Yes there is some real nastiness on these threads and all flowing one way.