Private School VAT Backtrack?

[SofaThrow]

There seem to be rumours swirling that Starmer has decided not to bring in the VAT on private schools until possibly 2025/6. After being very clear last year that there would be no phase in and that they would bring it in immediately.
Nothing is as yet confirmed I don't think.

The point is that there are many in the state system who do have that spare. We have millionaires using the state system, which they’re entitled to do, but they won’t be paying a penny more under this policy.

If you suddenly had a big, extra expense, you would feel the same way too. What are your thoughts on means tested contributions from parents who use state schools?

Means testing state education would cost a fair whack in developing a system to arrange this and mean the end of free education for some. Introducing VAT in the private sector still leaves the option of free education ie. use state education.

I personally don’t see how they are remotely similar but I guess I’m not in the position of having to find more money for school fees so don’t perform the same mental gymnastics as some on this subject.

It would be no different to the means tested set up that is in place for nursery school free hours provision. Very feasible.

why should everyone be entitled to free education? Clearly this country cannot support free everything for everyone anymore! If you have the means to contribute to improving your own child’s education, it is only right that you do so rather than expect others to do it for you!

Free education is pretty fundamental and it is about investing in the next generation. There needs to be free education for all. If you choose to opt out then that is your right and option to do so.

It would be fairly easy. There’s already a system to means test child benefit for example.

It would be interesting to see how many people would be in favour of means testing and paying towards state education. Can’t see it being popular but maybe I am wrong? I am strongly opposed and think it needs to be as it is at the moment - free and those who wish to go private do so.

In my opinion free education is fundamental to our society.

I agree that the best thing would to be leave things as they are. However, if we are pretending that this policy is about raising money for state schools, if we are taxing those who choose not to use the state system, it makes sense to tax those wealthy people who do the state system.

It’s a bit more about ideology isn’t they raising money for state schools isn’t it - suspect most people can see that realistically.

It can be debated on here as much as people want to but it isn’t going to change any thing is it ? It’s been a possibility for some time, I remember reading about it on here some time ago so it hasn’t suddenly come out of the blue.

I think all the threads are quite counter productive with those of us who aren’t affected by it losing what sympathy we might have had had. I’ve seen some comments by people who are affected by it saying they are getting pissed off too. But it is a free country so crack on.

It's an extremely important issue to some parents paying private school fees.

To the majority of the electorate the NHS, social care, crime, immigration, tax generally, dentists, doctors surgeries, apprenticeships, opportunities, the ability to purchase a home, affordable housing and affordable rental homes, the environment, unpaid carers being helped, pensions and pensioners, etc etc are a heck of a lot more important.

Still as someone else said if it's your primary issue crack on

I think there are a number of reasons why it has generated a fair amount of debate in this forum. Partly because for those impacted it is a significant issue in monetary terms. But also because education and the different views on the system are rather polarising and polarised, especially in what is (at least nominally) a parents' forum - grammar schools is another one, or university fees...any proposal on those would generate quite a lot of interest.
Last, but not least, and compounding the above, it has been one of the few policies where Labour has moved beyond generalities (they will probably be doing / should be going more with the publication of the manifesto) so one of the few topics where people could express views for or against as to what was being proposed.

Yes, free state education is fundamental to society, but clearly in the this country it is no longer sustainable!

In other countries university education is free but that’s not happening here and I don’t see any uproar about that. If full free state education is no longer sustainable it is down to those parents using the free education who CAN afford to contribute more (and there are many of them, trust me!) to stump up the extra cash, not those who are not using state education and already paying for their own child’s education.

@Seasaltlady why is free education clearly not sustainable anymore ? No politicians have said that have they ?

No one has said it apart from desperate mumsnetters who are doing anything to persuade people that popping VAT on private school fees will lead to the destruction of not only state education but the world 😂

They are tone deaf to the majority of people who have no spare cash to pay for advantage.

They also forget that school fees on average have risen around 50% over 5 years (the schools have been raising them). It didn't lead to a max exodus to the state system. The tales of state schools being overrun with private school pupils is gross exaggeration due to a) the small numbers and b) many will sink up the rise as they did with the rises implemented by the schools previously.

It's their one important electoral policy; more important than anything else. The majority of people have a range of things ahead of not adding VAT to private school fees! The ridiculous claims and ramifications are actually a comedy sketch in the making.

Thanks, I was starting to think I had missed a published paper on it. I am so fed up with people making false claims but I guess with the current government doing so it isn’t surprising. I thought most people were more sensible than the current government and can see through their behaviour but it appears not.

I really do think the behaviour of a minority of people who will be affected by the VAT policy have shot themselves in the foot. I’m not affected by this but I would have been prepared to have sign petitions etc for it to be phased in at key points in a child’s education before as I can see an argument for this but I won’t now after reading these boards.

average have risen around 50% over 5 years

Where is this figure from? Fee increases at all of the schools near us have been far below this. In fact, Statista show that the average day fee in 2020 was around £15,000. It’s now around £18,000. That’s an average of 20% increase over that time. That’s broadly in line with inflation, possibly slightly less.

It's their one important electoral policy; more important than anything else. The majority of people have a range of things ahead of not adding VAT to private school fees!

Precisely. It’s their one important electoral policy. Why, when there are so many more pressing problems in the country? Why are they focussing on a policy which will raise a tiny amount of money, when there are far bigger problems to look at?

Well it clearly is not if you are needing other parents outside of state education to pay for improving the state school system! Or am I missing something, is this additional VAT being used to fund something else?!

I disagree with your logic here and feel you are being disingenuous. You no doubt feel the same about me so let’s leave it there.

You misunderstood. It's some private school pupil parents most important policy. To ensure they don't pay VAT. Forgetting that for the vast majority of the electorate have other concerns, the NHS, social care, crime, housing, feeding their children, day to day bills, the environment, kack of dentists, doctors appointments, delays for health care, dreadful mental health services, etc etc etc NOT whether they have to pay some VAT on private fees.

I didn't make it clear.

The rise in private school fees over the last 5 years was mentioned by a commentator showing figures on a TV programme last week. Not a politican I'd add.

The rise in private school fees over the last 5 years was mentioned by a commentator showing figures on a TV programme last week.

Well they were showing factual inaccuracies then. And not just small inaccuracies. It’s amazing how some people are just making figures up and stating them as fact, just to fit their own political agenda.

Are they. That's your opinion.

There has apparently been a rise of 550% in 25 years in private school fees. Every school will be different. Parents have soaked up the rises. Other reports show 8% rise last year alone. The private schools charge a lot for a single place.

I think arguing for better education for ALL CHILDREN is a good thing, personally.

The 550% increase was from
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-charts-that-shows-how-private-school-fees-have-exploded-a7023056.html

Are they. That's your opinion.

It’s not opinion. It’s fact. Fees have not increased by 50% over 5 years. The statistics show that.

I think arguing for better education for ALL CHILDREN is a good thing, personally.

No one disagrees with you on this - the only question is why aren’t you and/ or other state education users not willing to pay more to improve the education in the very state schools that you are using?

If you suddenly had a big, extra expense, you would feel the same way too.

I think this is at the heart of it. A few people are very unhappy and (understandably) generating a lot of noise abiout it, making the threads active and so enticing the rest of us in

I suspect it's not quite as important an issue as the conversations on here are making it seem, to the wider voter pool.

That hardly a revelation :) I think it’s pretty obvious that the wider voter pool are perfectly content with letting other parents pay for improving their own children’s education!