Private School VAT Backtrack?

[SofaThrow]

There seem to be rumours swirling that Starmer has decided not to bring in the VAT on private schools until possibly 2025/6. After being very clear last year that there would be no phase in and that they would bring it in immediately.
Nothing is as yet confirmed I don't think.

The policy will not work. Surely, even though you are clearly ideologically opposed to private schools, this should matter to you?

No because the costs have soared. It’s been explained very carefully multiple times.

Fees have soared - above inflation.
When adjusted for inflation, the average wage has risen 17 per cent since 2000; in that time, boarding fees have jumped 66 per cent, while day rates are up 77 per cent.
The Times 16/4/23

Not for nothing was the head of St Custards called Grabber. These schools have never been economic choices

Not to my satisfaction. See the post below yours here. Above inflation rises.

I'm not on twitter/X and didn't watch Question Time so I might be missing something here but I'm not sure what he's trying to get across with those figures. He says this school's fees have gone up by 18% in 4 years. His tone of voice and comments about schools cutting back seem to suggest this is a surprisingly high rise, but from the numbers he gives it's pretty much in line with inflation. For illustration, if you put the fee he gives for 2020 (£8717) into the BofE inflation calculator then it says the CPI rise would give a cost of £10,699.99 now https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator and the actual number he gives is £10,303 a term. So it looks as if this school has broadly had fee rises at, or just below, general inflation. Given that increases in teacher pensions and energy costs have been much higher than general inflation it looks as if that's a reasonable response against a very difficult economic backdrop. Broadly it fits the picture of high cost rises in goods and services, which has made those goods and services increasingly out of reach for those whose wages haven't kept up with the high rate of inflation. It doesn't seem to lead to an argument in favour of adding greater costs through VAT.

I'm really not sure what he's trying to convey with the shocked tone of voice, unless he has a poor grasp of compounding and recent economics (or expects that of the audience).

Well he’s not trying to impress people who pay for private schools is he! Who do you think his intended target was, given he’s a politician?

imagine if people are forced to take their kids out of PS and put them into state schools - schools would need to be extended and more teachers would need to be recruited, which would cost more than than the VAT would generate. And there’d be an absolute bun fight for places in good schools & grammar schools

i dont understand this argument. If say 20% of private school pupils move to state schools ( and i dont think it will be anything like that number) 20% of 6% is only 1.2% . about a third of a child in every class of 30. How much do you think the extra cost is to plonk an extra chair in one in three classrooms? I am being a little tongue in cheek- of course there will be some costs, but the marginal cost will be very small- not like the figures being touted.The state education sector wont even notice the difference!

Ditto the increased competiton for grammar/ good schools - 1.2%!!!

Everyone on MN thinks those at private school are all loaded poshos… it’s not the case and absolutely infuriates me.

True - but then much pleasure is had on here sneering at posho children - Tarquin and Camilla and co who are all thick and entitled and turn up at their father’s workplace insisting that employees call them ‘my noble Majesty’ and so on.

If only we all had the disadvantages of these posho and not quite posho children and their education imagine how much better it would all be for the country

Yes - let's get our govts to sort out state education then rather than sniping at private education. Imagine how much better that would be? And much less bitterness and envy all round.

I agree, but VAT is a good start. I’ve been educated in both sectors (under a Conservative government). The disparity in terms of resources for state schools was completely iniquitous. Shocking because the degree of underfunding under the Conservatives directly affected my education. I have never forgotten that experience; it was just very clear that some schools and their children are left to rot. That was thirty years ago. Not much has changed. This is imo the right thing to do; the Conservatives should have improved the investment in state schools. They did not. They made cuts and spent time giving pensioners more pension. Try as I might, I cannot see they have any policy that even tries to help the majority of children and improve schooling. Morally it is wrong to improve the lot of older voter at the expense of the young. A country that is doing that is giving up looking to the future. Maybe this measure would not be so popular if the Conservatives had done a better job in power. But even if it is very unpopular with posters here, the reason it’s being promoted by Labour is that it is with many more.

How can it be a good start when it does nothing at all to improve state schools.

It’s clear your experiences colour your objectivity on this subject.

Experience is also an understanding of what a Conservative government will do or not do for the majority of children. I know what it is like not to have books but sharing a photocopy and in buildings that were cold and well past their utility. It was shameful then and it is shameful now. I have my own children who go to private school. I do not mind this charge provided it does what Labour intend it to do. I understand the privilege I was given fully, thank you

You seem particularly absorbed by the prospect, relishing the difficulties ahead for your own children, I would counter that your children will not be thanking you for your view when their school is closed.

Now I know I got under your skin @Polishedshoesalways since you wish me ill, my children and the school they attend. I reckon you would never be so candid, because it would force you to think otherwise than your glassy, dislocated style. I am the fortunate minority and so too my children. It’s not wrong to want that for others who didn’t have these advantages I had.

Meanwhile Labour dither on...

https://www.ft.com/content/031cd124-1c63-43e7-9008-2c8f0b460917

But what’s his point with the example of a school whose fees have gone up by roughly the same amount as inflation? It doesn’t really add anything either way. I suppose by putting multiple years together it looks nearly the same as VAT to those who don’t understand compounding or inflation.

Oh that’s interesting to know. There are unruly children everywhere. Having been to both private and state school, I much preferred the teachers at state school - they took a genuine interest in the pupils and their wellbeing. They also understood that some pupils have things going on at home whereas private school teachers took the general approach that nobody could have homelife issues because their parents had some money..

That is bullshit. And no I haven’t seen unruly children in the 20 years we have been through the private system. No one is going to pay for their child’s education to be disrupted are they!

Absolute made up bollocks.

I have taught in both sectors and do not recognise what you are saying at all. People make all sorts of things up to try to make points and frequently do on MN so I think I saw red. I should have been much more measured in my language. I apologise if this was your actual experience and I am sorry that you went to a poor private school.

Labelling me a 'pathetic troll' is a tad ott though, no?

Yes I apologise for calling you a troll. I think your response triggered me, because after a difficult time at school (those private) I finally felt listened to and excelled when I moved to state school purely down to the pastoral care. Albeit, it was a selective sixth form. That’s just my experience and I’m sure it vastly differs everywhere.

So adding a bit of VAT. Perhaps the schools have covered that already? Parents are obviously paying the massive increases above inflation each year already, the schools must realise that they will continue to pay.