If you agree with the so called National Service proposals

[Outdoorsygirl1]

Would you still agree if it applied to everyone over 18 not just 18 year olds?

So everyone able bodied over 18 had to either complete a year in the military or undertake 24 days of unpaid work.

If not then why not?

The idea of fining parents if their ADULT children do not undertake unpaid work, WTH, are the tories just trying to do everything they can to lose the next election??

This.

The problem is there are plenty who share my opinion which is that once I hit my 18th birthday, no-one had the right to tell me what to do, including my parents (I moved out).

I had plenty of friends who were similar.

If you pay me, you can tell me what to do, that's the deal. I will work hard and take pride in a job well done. But that's my choice. At 18 I would have simply refused to go along with any kind of compulsory National Service or volunteering.

I'm NOT saying I am right, what I am saying is that there are enough people who are like me and sufficiently bloody-minded, even at 18, that this scheme would be subject to widespread defiance which would snowball.

It did cross my mind that this might be an extremely cynical attempt to stoke another culture war - Tories win the election (as if!), bring this in, and benefit from the public reaction to those who stick two fingers up at it.

In principle I kinda like the idea and yes I already do volunteer (approx 15 hours a month) as well as work full time and have caring responsibilities. Volunteering isn't a drag but is something 'for me' and I've made lifelong friends through it all.

Obviously there's a lot of difference between volunteering and being compelled to do national service but if it's an opportunity to 'give back' to public services then I can't see how it's going to make people or society any worse.

In some ways, it could be a great leveller: posh Trust Fund baby has to do it alongside 'ordinary' kids.

Of course I don't believe the government has the ability to successfully run a scheme like this. They can't even run current government departments efficiently but in principle, no massive issues with the idea and the idea that it could be something every able-bodied person could contribute to in some way.

What happened to David Cameron's National Citizenship Service (NCS) scheme? DD did it around 10 years ago. It was a 4 week programme in the summer hols after GCSEs. Cost us £35. It was a fantastic scheme, at least locally.

How's this going to work with 18 year old going off to uni / colleges and into the workforce once they finish education? It would disrupt everything.

I just can't see many people voting Tory because of this proposal, most would surely question the logistics and ridiculous cost involved?

I can't understand why on earth the Tories think this will help them in this election?! Apart from a minority of people like my dm (who is v right wing - not saying you would only be RW to like the idea though) who says it'll toughen up the snowflake generation with all their naval gazing and anxiety (her words not mine and I totally disagree)

Shit idea. Mother of a 20 year old and 17 year old. Many 18-21 year olds are working as much as they can to fund university, driving lessons, extortionate rent. And being paid the absolute pittance that is minimum wage for horrible jobs. Why on earth should they be expected to give up time to work unpaid?

I am in two minds about this ...i dont understand why on earth the tories think it is a good idea for young adults already with plans..either going to uni/training/apprenticeship or work. I agree completely that these YA are constructively getting on with their lives, developing skills etc etc...
they do not 'need' life skills/confidence building/ etc

However for the young adults like my step nephew who is 18 , living with his mother ( who is working 60 hrs a week currently to pay the rent/food bills etc) , attends college 3 days a week on a training scheme learning a trade, BUT spends other 4 days a week lying in bed or gaming and smoking weed and refuses to get any kind of p/t job to help the household...and i quote 'cus no one is fking telling me what to do' said to his grandmother who suggested he should be contributing in some way. Well he would most certainly benefit as would his mother.

there are so many threads on here about failing to launch young adults... if parents cannot get these young people to grow up then maybe some form of national service would.

however these are exactly the type of kids who would just not show up...and how is it going to be enforced etc ?

Whoever has proposed this has never tried to find a teenager a work experience placement.

The Tories slashed funding for it by over 62%, a Govt minster was asked about this this morning, funding cut because of Covid and Ukraine.... but as both of these are now over, plenty of money for this scheme apparently.

@Theredjellybean What possible good would these sorts of schemes do your relative?

There is no sanctioning, so why would he even turn up? much less do anything useful.

Many don’t want to do any voluntary services .. many are stuck indoors stuck on their phones no confidence .. don’t know how to socialise .. need to get fitter .. need direction .. confidence .. community …
this country is getting flakey
1 year that’s all. People are just crying something that is going to help the young that need skills and confidence in this big wide world.
I think it’s fantastic idea

Yeah every one on benefits doing nothing productive. Also, compulsory for people who want to claim asylum and refugee status to give something back and get to know the British culture and customs. I am pretty sure they would love to integrate to the wonderful country they just moved to.

Some by the way are active in marches every weekend so the time is there.

@iwishihadknownmore ....it would benefit his mother - as she feels she has no confidence to tell him to get up and get a job, if someone in a higher authority was able to make him do something it may..just may, show him that actually getting a job/being part of a team/doing something useful is actually quite fulfilling .
If we want to believe that these young adults who are not in education or training or work , are all sat at home stoned and/or gaming because they singularly lack the confidence to leave their front doors and engage with the world, then surely this is exactly what they need ? a government run and supported work experience programme basically !

Volunteering is a middle class luxury. The poor often work more than one job. They have no time to volunteer.

This is a gimmick designed to attract the votes of nasty bastards. To be fair. they're either voting Tory or Reform anyway. I've not read beyond the first page of this thread, but needless to say those that appear to back the proposal seem to miss the point of this thread. No one under 85 has had to do national service, yet some want others to be forced to do it. To them I say - you first. Then fuck off.

We've destroyed the housing market and made them leave university with £50k+ debt, given them a low wage economy in a cost of living crisis, we've fucked up the planet for them, we've lowered the life expectancy for them for the first time since the black death, and we've told them their pensions will be paid far later than currently, but out of their meagre incomes they have to pay tax so that those receiving pensions today can see their incomes rising faster than those who have to pay for it.

The Tories are finished. Their brand of nasty politics is finished. Good riddance.

...it would benefit his mother - as she feels she has no confidence to tell him to get up and get a job, if someone in a higher authority was able to make him do something it may..just may, show him that actually getting a job/being part of a team/doing something useful is actually quite fulfilling

Well maybe. Or maybe you'd end up giving 18 year olds like this the perfect excuse for sitting on their arse and not getting a job because they're "doing national service" (for 24 days a year).

I live in a country that has national service, it has to be completed by a certain age and also you can do it all in one go, or in a number of periods of time.. Until you complete it you pay 8% tax on your earnings - a minimum of around £50 a year.
Last summer some of my son’s friends did the military service. They largely enjoyed it, it was hiking, learning to be a medic - taking blood, inserting a drip, social media training. Amongst other things.
If you don’t want to complete the military service then you can do civil protection. This could be maintaining your local area, repairing fences etc. If you do this you pay less tax
If you don’t want to do it that is fine but you have to pay the full 8% tax until around aged 35
They are paid to do the military service, so this money can go towards a gap year or to fund university costs.
They learn to look after themselves, discipline, get fitter. I’m sure some of them don’t love it but in general the feedback I get from friends is positive and the recruits make Friends. Som even choose to stay in the army.

If it happened, I hope that it wouldn’t be used as an excuse to cut council services and jobs like litter picking.

This

But on that token nobody should have an opinion on pensions, education, social housing, benefits… anything that didn’t apply to them.

@Autumcolors ..it does seem that so many countries do have some form of national service for their young people and there are not cries of outrage ? i wonder why that is ?

Other countries do it. I used to do business with Singapore and even doctors in their 50s have to do several days of national service a year, on top of the three years compulsory at 18.

But then Singapore's a small city-state with lots of money and a stable one-party government that runs very efficiently and effectively. I don't think it'll work here.

They talk about it as a bonding experience as well - sets the men up with networks and friends for life. So it's very beneficial for many to do it.

And it's paid.

I don't think Rishi is offering paid national service is he? Sounds like another unaffordable idea.

I've always done some kind of voluntary work both in the UK and while living abroad so I'd totally support that.