Long-standing Conservative voters thread

[Katypp]

Any one else who has - up to this point at least - been a Tory voter?
I have voted Conservative at every national election (I am late 50s). This one is probably the most likely to change. Purely because I think new blood would be a good idea. I live in a very Labour area and have never shared my colours with anyone from being in my early 20s.
Given the fact that the Tories usually win, I suspect there are a lot like me.
I know it's a big ask, but I hope thar this might be a sensible thread for other natural Tory voters to discuss the election and not be called names and shouted down like we are on every other thread.
If you are a Labour voter, please don't hijack the thread and tell us how wrong we are. There is free speech in the UK and we are just as entitled to hold our opinion as you are to hold yours.

@pointythings I think it's extremely unlikely I will vote for Reform. I just wish people would take a reasoned view - like you - abs actually engage instead of just shouting vacuous bollocks.

I so agree with you - this thread has been a model for how civilised political dicourse can happen, and should stay that way.

@Katypp I was responding to your not so nice and unfounded comment that Labour were being ‘spiteful’.

And your latter comment re ‘knee jerk name calling’ comes across as ever so virtuous, ironic considering that posters of all politic colours have engaged in this and that you felt quite happy to insult AR. A whiff of snobbish bullying there I think.

See that’s quite cutting ? Vacuous bollocks if someone disagrees.
It’s no more civilised than any other thread 😂

Sorry @Rosaluxemberg I am not going to engage with you.

The Lib Dems are running a classic conservative-style candidate in my constituency. Anyone going to vote Lib Dem?

This thread is really interesting.

I'm a through and through public sector worker, labour voter.

But I really don't care what others vote, as long as they employ critical thinking. Not just basing votes on a single issue. Media sound bites. Etc. that's what upsets me.

This thread has shown that to me.

Good luck all in this.

I’m not voting Reform. I don’t think much of Farage - so self-serving. And so arrogant to extol Brexit and then buy an EU/Maltese passport. Yuck. But they seem to be the only party saying the NHS needs big change. NHS needs to stop being a national religion - there needs to be a proper debate on what the purpose of it is. I would like to see a functioning basic service for all. The GP system is too half and half so doesn’t work. Dentists likewise. Both need to be employed, not self-employed - this would dramatically increase appointment availability.

I’d describe myself as a moderate, one nation conservative. I actually prefer the term ‘Conservative-centrist’, or even ‘red Tory’. The core reason I’m ‘conservative’ (I mean in temperament) is that I distrust grand, dreamy idealism. Things that sound great in a sixth form common room often cause chaos in the real world. I’m a moderate conservative because I want sensible, realistic grown ups running the country. I have met very few left-wing people I respected. Frankly, many seem like overgrown adolescents. You know, people who never grew out of the adolescent rebel stage. Or there’s the bitter, hate-filled sort who want to upset people for the sake of it (Frankie Boyle is a good example of that type). Or they’re show offs who see radical politics as a way of getting attention (Russell Brand is a good example of that type).

I’m also conservative in a broader sense, in that I want to conserve things that are worth conserving - beautiful buildings, high culture, a literary canon, etc. And I want to conserve those things for everyone, not just a minority.

In general, I follow people like Roger Scruton. He was in Paris in 1968 during the riots, and describes walking the streets and talking to the young students. When he asked them why they wanted a revolution, all he got back was a load of pseudo-intellectual Marxist gibberish. As he watched, he realised that most of them weren’t really interested in politics at all. They were just enjoying the adrenaline rush and the chance to smash things up. I suppose what I’m saying is that I believe in order and civilisation. Such things are precious and fragile. They don’t come naturally to us. By nature we’re violent, restless, and irrational. Anyone who believes humans are basically good and that we can build (i.e impose) a utopia isn’t just naive - they’re dangerous.

I disliked Margaret Thatcher, however. She wasn’t a conservative at all. She was a free market fanatic. Her supporters had no interest in conserving beautiful things, and no belief in duty or service or good manners or any of the other virtues I associate with conservatism. All that mattered was money.

@Cooper77 although I vote Lib Dem due to where I live and would be happy to vote Labour too at the moment- my politics aren't dissimilar to yours -except more slanted maybe to Blairite era. I loathe Farage and the bullshit he peddles but also I can't stand the Owen jones types- it's all a bit Rik off the young ones- however a little of those student politics types have now parked themselves with the greens- and I'm sure they will ruin that party too - you have to be realistic in the world and care and environmental things are important but so is having an economy that can sustain good changes. Having liked in Denmark it's interesting that they gave a very capitalist society but with strong social democracy underpinning it- you paid a lot in- but got a lot out- and it worked well I thought. It's really not 'left ' how people think- it's pretty centreist -

@Cooper77 one of my big problems with current conservatives besides corruption and the obvious things is that I don't think many of them actually interested remotely in culture and creative industry - be it books, art, music , buildings

You’re right. Their only interest is money and hiving it off into their bank accounts. And if you want an example of someone hate filled who upset people out of spite @Cooper77, remind yourself of Jenrick painting over the cartoon murals in an asylum centre. Both sides of the political spectrum are reprehensible at the extreme, the current Labour Party is nowhere near that.

I'm listening to interviews with the leading politicians and all they want to do is evade talking about the detail. Labour's manifesto is a lot of vague waffle - there are no details and they are absolutely determined not to provide any to anyone ahead of the election. But they don't have to - they can see the polls - they know how far ahead they are - they know they can just win and then make decisions about what they're REALLY going to do once they're in No. 10.

So I don't trust them. They'll fuck over people like us (professional, well-paid, but already highly taxed). They've more or less said they'll raise council tax, they're going to tax school fees, so while they may say 'We're not going to raise taxes', they're blatant about the fact that they will. And that's not a surprise - Labour has always been the party of tax and spend.

As for Reform - any protest vote is in essence a vote for Labour. Reform aren't going to do jack shit and BBC Verify went through the numbers on their pledges last night and they don't add up. They might get a seat or too here and there, but ultimately all they'll do is hoover up Con votes and give a bigger win to Labour. Farage is a nasty piece of work too. He's a disrupter like Trump and he's the arsehole who gave us Brexit, so he'll never get my vote, whatever he stands for.

I agree although I think Reform will take more votes from Labour than people think. Certainly in my red wall area, traditional Labour voters have more in common with Reform than KS's Labour

Quite liking Starmer's pledge on dentists. It's a disgrace that dentists won't take on NHS patients (presumably because of funding), especially children. I would have concerns about the practicalities - as usual - and the costings - as usual - but that pledge has definitely piqued my interest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgglpvze3no
https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/just-announced-back-labours-plan-to-rescue-nhs-dentistry/

I find it interesting that Labour is now offering 100,000 extra dental appointments, when last October they were offering 700,000! See the two articles above.

Ultimately though, it's all just meaningless waffle. Where are these mythical appointments going to come from? Dentists aren't short of work! It's just that what the government is prepared to pay them currently doesn't cover the cost of the service they're expected to provide.

And who is going to supervise teeth brushing - teachers? Great - yet another parenting responsibility that teachers will be expected to take on, on top of toilet training, changing nappies and teaching DC how to speak, since their parents are too busy on their smartphones to talk to them.

Something needs to be done about NHS dentistry/the lack of it, for sure, but Labour's pledges have no substance whatsoever. Remember when the Conservatives vowed to reduce immigration to 'tens of thousands a year'. It was over a million in 2022. Technically, that's 'tens of thousands', but it's a hell of a lot of them!

Those voters in the red wall all voted Tory in 2019. Labour lost their votes some time ago.

@Cooper77 I'm interested in your post on Scruton, I am a fan of his. But he was not a one Nation conservative he was a traditionalist and put an empasis on the importance of family policies and belonging. One nation don't do this and supports things like mass immigration which just cares about money not culture or community. And he was a fan of Thatcher who you have mischaracterised. I have read her book and she regretted that she didn't have time to build social policies and just financial ones as the country was in such a mess when she came in (very similar to now). She is always misrepresented by the left who are jealous that she had massive support from the working class and they don't.

Yes and my point is that the general assumption seems to be that they will all go back to Labour (resulting in a landslide).
I don't think this will happen.

I don’t think it will happen either and I don’t know anyone who does. The Tories aren’t scaremongering when they say a vote for Reform is a vote for Labour because they know that they were lent red wall votes in 2019 and are now losing them to Reform. If there is a landslide it will be because traditional Tory voters in the blue wall are moving left and voting tactically. There’s a massive GTTO movement.

Labour are expected to get a landslide but its not because of getting red wallers to vote for them, alot of tory voters from 2019 will stay at home and others will vote Reform. There will be a low turnout. So Labour will get a landslide on low no. of votes that's just how the system works.

I think turnout will be high. There are many, many very angry people who want the Tories gone.

We have to get the Torys out. So I'll be voting Green as its the credible alternative here

No point voting Labour , although I wish it were !

Yes you could be right @BIossomtoes . Maybe the vote for smaller parties will be alot higher than usual, I don't detect much enthusiasm for labour.

Thanks for the resuscitation of this thread @Katypp; as you say, interesting to revisit the state of play at half-time.

I'm still undecided. Locally, it's probably the LibDems who have the best chance of evicting our Tory MP. But I can't summon much sympathy with their sixth form politics. Reform have a lot of placards up but nothing they promise is anything other than a bullrun through a china shop.

I’d recommend listening to the most recent TRIP Leading podcast with Bridget Phillipson. Rory Stewart sums up the discussion well saying she, and a lot of Labour people, don’t seem interested in trying to appeal to centrist Tory voters and almost seem to find it distasteful. THAT is the problem with modern politics, far too much tribalism and too little appetite to work together to actually get things done to the benefit of the country.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/leading/id1665265193?i=1000659037450