Missing death entry?

[knittingaddict]

My husband's 3 x great grandmother is called Amelia and was married to John Foster. I can't find their marriage or anything else about Amelia.

The things I do know:

John was born in Dinnington, Yorkshire in 1786.
He was having children with Amelia from about 1820, possibly 1818 in Dinnington.
Baptisms for children go up to 1833 in Dinnington.
John, Amelia and their children are missing from the 1841 census.
Most/all? of the children ended up in Sheffield, got married and had children there.

I have found a burial entry for an Amelia Fisher of Cowell House, aged 60. She was buried at St Nicholas, Bradfield, Sheffield on 30 November 1848. The facts fit quite well and there aren't a lot of Amelia Fishers. However I can't find her in the death register on Ancestry, FMP or freebmd and I really need it to see if this is my Amelia.

I'm an experienced family historian, but I've hit a bit of a brick wall here. Any thoughts on missing death certificates and what on earth I can do from here? I suspect it's a lost cause at this point, but I never give up.

As you can imagine looking for the deaths/burials of John Fisher has it's own issues.

Was Amelia definitely her registered name? Could it just have been her 'known as' name?

It might not have been registered. I know they were supposed to be but it was still a bit hit and miss until 1874.

Fisher or Foster?

Have you tried going after the property address? Cowell House and farm are to let in a newspaper advert in 1827 (Sheffield Independent - Saturday 26 May 1827).

There may be other property-related records which will help you follow the family through their period at Cowell House.

Also, holding a property like that, John will probably have had the vote from 1834.

Another tack I'm sure you've covered: IME "Amelia" suffers a lot of variation: Emelia, Emily, Amelie, AEmelia...

This is very likely the Amelia Fisher who was buried at St Nicholas, Bradfield, Sheffield on 30 November 1848, given you say they're not thick on the ground. The area is certainly correct.

The dates appear to be a week out, but that's a very common effect of newspapers copying verbatim from each other. If this is a copied story, then the Wednesday it's referring to could well be Wednesday 29 Nov.

Another caveat: my experience of burial registers is that they frequently give the location the body is to be collected from, rather than deceased's permanent residence.

On Wednesday, T . Badger, Esq, held an inquest at the house of Mr. Wm. Hawksworth, sign of the Cross Daggers, Upper Bradfield, on the body of Amelia Fisher, widow, aged 61, who died suddenly on Tuesday morning. From the evidence of Mr. J. P. Payne, surgeon, it appeared that death had arisen from natural causes, and a verdict to that effect was returned.
Sheffield Independent - Saturday 09 December 1848

One correction - I think John and amelia were having children from 1812 and that Amelia was sometimes called Millicent. There's a double entry for the birth of Elizabeth and in one the mother is Amelia and in the other Melicent, so I think that rules our two different wives.

@MissAmbrosia

Fisher or Foster?

Sorry Foster was a typo. It's Fisher.

@TressiliansStone

This is very likely the Amelia Fisher who was buried at St Nicholas, Bradfield, Sheffield on 30 November 1848, given you say they're not thick on the ground. The area is certainly correct.

The dates appear to be a week out, but that's a very common effect of newspapers copying verbatim from each other. If this is a copied story, then the Wednesday it's referring to could well be Wednesday 29 Nov.

Another caveat: my experience of burial registers is that they frequently give the location the body is to be collected from, rather than deceased's permanent residence.

On Wednesday, T . Badger, Esq, held an inquest at the house of Mr. Wm. Hawksworth, sign of the Cross Daggers, Upper Bradfield, on the body of Amelia Fisher, widow, aged 61, who died suddenly on Tuesday morning. From the evidence of Mr. J. P. Payne, surgeon, it appeared that death had arisen from natural causes, and a verdict to that effect was returned.
Sheffield Independent - Saturday 09 December 1848

I am so impressed. Thank you so much for that. Where on earth did you find it?

I've rarely come across missing death entries, so I'm very annoyed that this is the one that isn't there. In the circumstances though it looks like the death may not have been registered by a relative in any case.

It helps to know that she was a widow by 1848 though.

British Newspaper Archive. You'll have it packaged with FMP if you're on there, although I prefer the BNA's own interface.

I just searched "Amelia Fisher" in the appropriate area and date range. That's where I found the Cowell House ad as well.

@knittingaddict

One correction - I think John and amelia were having children from 1812 and that Amelia was sometimes called Millicent. There's a double entry for the birth of Elizabeth and in one the mother is Amelia and in the other Melicent, so I think that rules our two different wives.

Known as Milly or Melly, perhaps? And officialdom formalised it in different ways?

I've done a general search for all Fishers who died in the last qtr of 1848 in the are and there is nothing that looks anythink like Amelia or Millicent. She seems to have gone by Amelia in all records since the baptism of her second child in 1812.

Apologies for all the typos. I'm doing family history when I should be doing other stuff and not checking my posts properly.

Also take to Google for "Cowell House". Local history websites and forums can offer gems.

For some reason it's not opening for me, but this link mentions Cowell House. It seems to be on Penistone Road (unless there are two of the name): www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/13822-swindin-house/

Image and location of Cowell House here: www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3452132

If you can't go through your brick wall, go round, over and under...

I find a John Fisher - burial 1846 in Tickhill

And I think this is him visiting his mother in the 1841 census

Gender Male
Where born Yorkshire, England
Civil parish Laughton Le Morthen
Hundred Strafforth and Tickhill (South Division)
County/Island Yorkshire
Country England
Registration district Rotherham
Sub-registration district Maltby
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 1332
Book 1
Page number 1
Household Members
Household Members
Name Age
John Fisher 60
Mary Fisher 80
Sarah Fisher 18
Frankis Fisher 14

The children and location of his parents match up

I'm doing family history when I should be doing other stuff

Not just you...

Re: The missing 1841 census entry. Amelia may have been widowed by then. Have you looked for her in the households of her older children or her siblings/ parents?

@SnowdaySewday

Re: The missing 1841 census entry. Amelia may have been widowed by then. Have you looked for her in the households of her older children or her siblings/ parents?

Yes I have, but no luck so far.

I will check the census entry suggested by MissAmbrosia though as it looks promising. I had Francis Fisher and Mary Coup as possible parents for John Fisher. The children's ages are off a bit, but not massively.

1841 its not unusual for ages to be off by 2 or 3 years.

@MissAmbrosia

I find a John Fisher - burial 1846 in Tickhill

And I think this is him visiting his mother in the 1841 census

Gender Male
Where born Yorkshire, England
Civil parish Laughton Le Morthen
Hundred Strafforth and Tickhill (South Division)
County/Island Yorkshire
Country England
Registration district Rotherham
Sub-registration district Maltby
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 1332
Book 1
Page number 1
Household Members
Household Members
Name Age
John Fisher 60
Mary Fisher 80
Sarah Fisher 18
Frankis Fisher 14

The children and location of his parents match up

Unfortunately it's the wrong family. Sarah and Francis were the children of John and Martha Fisher. The ages are out by 2 or 3 years to be my Fishers and I've found the basptisms for the Sarah and Francis in that census return.

Thank you for looking though.

I'm fairly sure that the family I am looking for are in the Sheffield area and missing from the census.

Keep going back to the BNA with names, locations and occupations.

Also, if you have a BMD from other sources, run it through the BNA in case there's additional info in a newspaper notice.

@knittingaddict

I've done a general search for all Fishers who died in the last qtr of 1848 in the are and there is nothing that looks anythink like Amelia or Millicent. She seems to have gone by Amelia in all records since the baptism of her second child in 1812.

Have you done the opposite and searched for all Amelia or Millicent who died in that quarter?

@MissAmbrosia

1841 its not unusual for ages to be off by 2 or 3 years.

Yes in 1841 ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years for everyone over 15. I have seen several returns where the enumerator has rounded everyone down which might account for discrepancies.

I've looked for Amelias and Millicents in the right quarter, but there's nothing.