Can anyone identify this plant in my garden please?

[HappyLouBella]

Any ideas what this is please?

It's very kind of you to mention all that, but there are very many plants with such a similar appearance (especially when you include cultivars and that many plants look very alike when grown from seed and they only have a few new leaves). Unless you knew how to describe it using botanical terms, AI is unlikely to come up with the right answer. And if you do know the botanical terms, you can probably work it out yourself anyway!!

There are a lot of experienced gardeners on MN who can immediately identify most things within about 2 seconds of seeing the photo, and as we have all seen on many previous occasions, plant apps can either get it right or be spectacularly inaccurate.

Often the first leaves don't even match the later ones.

However that looks like someone has already cut back or broken off the top growth as the lower shoots are coming from below the cut off point, or someone has stuck a stick in the ground that has shooted. It does not look like a self seeded plant at all.

It looks like you would expect a tree seedling to look if it germinated a year or two ago and the trunk has been broken off, chewed by an animal, or cut down last autumn.

I could have quite easily broken it - I have no idea what I'm doing in my garden. I'm a plant it and cross your fingers gardener 😂

I found it under the dead bluebells I was pulling up. I didn't notice anything there last year. Now here I am crossing my fingers again.

Whilst we're here, another question. Do you know what this one is?

Its not from my garden, it's from my neighbours. It trails through my Laurel, along the ground and fence and goes a beautiful red colour come autumn. I personally love it, but is it a problem that I'm leaving it to work it's way through my garden? Will it cause the Laurel any issues?

Without a good look at the pictures Virgina Creeper.

Yes, sorry! I more meant that when you’re in a situation like this, where experienced people disagree. AI is better for when experts don’t agree than for amateurs seeking information; an expert who wants to form their own opinion can combine opinions of other experts (like what everyone here has said) and private information (I mentioned post code for gardening) and more experts (send it to search gardening resources and photos on the web) to get a better search outcome. Plant search AIs are incredibly shackled, by design; if you told it not to track you when you installed it, it can’t make use of the data your phone (and you, as a human gardener) collect.

Plus only a gardening expert would know if AI is hallucinating. I would have no bloody idea! 😂

Fwiw iNaturalist is quite good - it uses both specialist AI comparing dozens of confirmed pictures of the same species, and human expertise. It's also not for profit and of scientific use.

Unfortunately in this case even iNaturalist is split between laburnum and trifolium (aka clovers). Might be worth uploading it OP, as you can add the precise location to narrow it down.

If AI doesn't know the answer, it makes shit up and then waits to be contradicted so it can learn from its mistake.

Somewhat unfair. You shouldn’t expect a shackled AI to be any better than the data input you give it.

Well when Googling a question such as:

"What fungicide should I use to treat pine needle cast on a Japanese red pine pinus densiflora bonsai UK?"

I can't really see how much more specific I could be, and I asked this actual question some months ago.

Especially when several reputable UK bonsai websites gave an appropriate answer, but the AI answer at the top of the screen was utter drivel.

Google “AI” is the most basic form of AI in the world, so of course it’s useless 😂

Of course you’re going to get an absolute shite answer from an AI programmed to not prioritize any one data source on the internet over others, OR that prioritizes “ad” sources over others. Google photo identification will always prioritize businesses with similar photos over gardening non-profit websites with more useful photos. You’re 100% better off using an AI where you can prioritize data sources in the prompt.

There's a lot of men like thst in tech, and AI is probably written by a lot of them. It probably never occurred to them to program it to say, I don't know, I haven't learnt about that yet."

I work in AI, have a vagina that came as part of my basic OS, expect people to understand that AI is only as good as its input and unfortunately, most people are not “programmed” on giving enough input to get the answer they want.

Yes, tech fields are dominated by men, but those men are just using computer programming logic (every piece of your AI question is a yes-no logic tree). That’s why there are Open University courses on how to write an AI prompt that respect its nothing but a human-style interface on computer programming. AI is just a tool; no one can hammer in a nail if they’re holding the hammer upside down.

I do not want AI to prioritise one data source over others. I do not want a computer to decide whether it should allow me to see the information I asked for or not. That way lies the downfall of democracy as we know it.

People are walking headlong into AI thinking it's amazing, and they really can't see where it might end up.

Besides, I didn't ask Google AI (I'm not stupid), nor did I upload a photo. I typed the question into the ordinary Google search bar.

Go on then - tell me exactly where, in the question I posed above, did I not give sufficient information:

I gave the name of the fungal disease affecting the plant.
I gave the species of plant, not only its name in English but also its latin name.
I provided information about its growing conditions.
I asked for the name of a fungicide available in the UK which would treat that issue.

What other information could it possibly require?

All you have done so far is to confirm that AI doesn't give the right answer if the general public doesn't ask a question in the right way with all the correct details - which they probably don't know, and which is why they are asking in the first place.

By the way, I understand the concept of GIGO very well indeed - for the last 40+ years I've been configuring accounting software packages, training people how to use them, and then explaining all the myriad ways in which they could cock the results up if they don't input the right information.😂

You’re not understanding me. AI is incredibly useful YOUR input tells it which data sources to prioritize; you’re already only receiving certain data sources as prioritized. You’re just “outsourcing” the choice of what gets prioritized to Google, in this case. Would you ask it for medical advice and NOT tell it to prioritize medical sources such as peer-reviewed journals? Of course not. I’m not saying we should have unshackled AIs on networked computers. Yes, the minute anyone says unshackled AIs on network computers aren’t dangerous, you should be buying a house in the Highlands with its own septic tank and electric system, I agree. We’d be two steps from a Terminator or Matrix style future (ok, maybe three steps? 😂). Shackled vs unshackled is talking about apples and oranges. It can’t be compared. I haven’t seen anything about an AI “unshackling” itself and if you have, please don’t tell me - I’d probably have a panic attack. Bad enough that AIs can be used to make CSAM from photos.

Also, apologies - I wasn’t trying to imply you were stupid. I assumed you meant the Google “AI” answer that is prioritized as a “first search result” that pops up if you put your question as a Google search query.

Hey now, I swear I’m on your side! You did nothing “wrong,” you’re absolutely right; Google AI is not appropriate for this query. It doesn’t take each section of your question separately and it always prioritizes companies who have paid it. It doesn’t prioritize any one word of the query, though, so for example, that query could give you as an answer, a herbicide that is only available to wholesalers or was banned for personal use in the UK. Still technically available, but not to you. Or it works on one sub-species of that plant but not others. OR it prioritizes non-herbicidal answers because Round-Up has paid for Google ads. I’m aware you know that Google ads are part of its AI answers, but others might not know.

Shackled AIs need a justification for every part of your query. It’s more like a list of demands the answer must reach:

• must work on X plant
• must work on X version of X plant
• must be X (herbicide)
• must be available for purchase currently in the UK
• must be available for purchase legally in the UK by individuals

If you phrase those as 4-6 separate sentences into a dedicated AI like ChatGPT and prioritized types of sources, I would hope you’d get a useful answer. But I totally admit this is my AI knowledge; because people don’t share “a lot” about farming or gardening online (it’s such specialized knowledge that yes, you would be better off having a gardening AI that’s just powered by ChatGPT but has already been fed all the necessary PDFs with info on local plants and plant law - oh god, I’m sure they don’t call it plant law, I sound so stupid, but you know what I mean?)

But yes, I’ve said very early on in my first or second thread comment that AI is still of more use to disagreeing experts than the general public, and this is why. Not because I want it to be so, but because it is by design.

Also, I could never, ever do your job 😂 I’m absolute shit at explaining programs to people, as you probably noticed.

Sooooooo... we're still not sure what the plant is then? 😂

Sadly, no 😂

But @GuelderRoses and I had a nice discussion about AI! Sorry for derailing 😬

Why not in the UK? I frequently have peanut seedlings sprouting up where the squirrels have buried peanuts in shells.

I am very far north in the UK and definitely get peanut seedlings. It happens most years.

I'll eat my hat if it isn't a laburnum. 😂

@DilettanteRedRagger It wasn't a herbicide I was looking for. 😂😂😂