Neighbour hacking off boughs - conservation area

[JennyForeigner]

Hi all, grateful for your expertise.

We live in a listed house in a conservation area with a beautiful garden and mature trees. We are good tree owners, having them annually checked and trimmed, and have removed unsuitable overgrown Leylandii with roots too close to houses.

We have had new neighbours for a couple of years. We have worked hard to get on well with them but they have upset people by replacing the grass verge at the front of their house with plastic mat without permission, lots of cars and basically being a bit tasteless in a community people move to for its greeness and wildlife. They have massively extended at the back without keeping within the permissions granted. The male half of the couple told me he plans to pave and AstroTurf their garden, and that he dislikes our (rather beautiful) garden because of the 'messy' plants. We have 8 foot fences.

About six months ago he asked if they could take down the overhanging boughs from a line of lovely trees including silver birch on our side of the boundary. He considers these 'untidy.'

I said that we understood it was his right to ask and that if he wanted to work with our tree surgeon would not object. Under a bit of pressure from him I agreed that if he had a preferred tree surgeon we would meet them and provided we were satisfied, allow them to work in our garden. I felt uncomfortable about this afterwards as I felt what he really wanted was to get some dodgy mate around.

Today I saw him up a ladder, sawing through one of the larger boughs from our silver birch. He had given no thought at all to how to do this properly, or minimising damage to the tree. We have been in all day and he didn't attempt to speak to us.

My husband now feels I was unreasonable for asking him why he didn't knock on our door and ask before getting his saw out. He stopped, but was not nice about it and I am now really quite unhappy. I don't believe for a minute that he would have stopped if I hadn't caught him, while we have three very young children and the trees are in a built up bed by the fence where there is a substantial level change. There is a risk that the trees will become unbalanced and unsafe, as well as looking awful.

I am frankly furious, especially as we have been so thoughtful and accommodating.

AIBU to tell him he can do one if he ever so much as mentions working on our land again?

And am I right to think he should have had permission before the work took place as we are in a conservation area? I am not sure about this, but would love it if I could tell him no on this basis. We have always had permission before getting our tree surgeon in, but as we have been taking leylandii out, I'm not sure if this is what the permission is for.

Would really appreciate any guidance people can give. AIBU?

I think you are right and this is a question of responsibility.

I can see why pps think our house being listed is a red herring but mentioned it because there is a protected view of the house from the back. We are required to be very careful about the visual amenity of the house and the extension does encroach.

I'm failing in my responsibility to provide a MN map! I'll upload one after ringing the council.

Where you live sounds absolutely stunning! (Neighbour issues notwithstanding)

I think you should report the building works and the fact he's done work to a tree that's in a conservation area but I think you need to be careful not to get riled up about things that aren't any of your buisness such as him having bad taste etc. It's sounds like you are getting agitated about everything and not just the things you have control over.

Silver birch are fairly messy trees. I know because I have two in my garden (planted well away from the fences). They typically grow fast too.

How thick was the bough he cut?

@cosmiccosmos

it would have been good if you had read all before ranting.

sounds like you have had issues and they cloud your comments.

I’d also compare the approved extension plans to what has actually been built, especially in terms of the window size / location and building materials.

OK I have done my best!

Some additional info - someone asked why our village association hasn't been more on it. The neighbour's garden is surrounded by tall fence. On his other side is a vulnerable very elderly lady who is mostly in care now, so not accessible or I am sure he would be telling her to chop down her several lovely apples. Impact of the works is therefore limited to us. There is also a level change with our garden about 3 feet lower at the boundary, so without the tall fencing we would be overlooked.

I have shown massive garage/workshop on the other side of our neighbours house from us. They chose to keep this, and to extend almost to our boundary instead.

We believe the original L shape of his building was determined to ensure that the house didn't encroach on ours. With the 'L' filled in, our kitchen is now in the shadow of the extension, and overlooked by the floor to ceiling window which wasn't on the plans we saw.

Hard to say because he has dragged it to the other side of his garden, but it's substantial. Maybe 7-8 inches with sub-branches? It was more that he had just decided to crack on and take off anything he saw fit - if we hadn't been home and I hadn't stopped him, he'd have carried on. He told me that he planned to cut another basically hedge type tree to the level of the top of the fence next, and then came round and told my husband he wants them gone altogether. He genuinely doesn't see an issue, so is quite happy to tell us what he was going to do.

For all that I understand the thread has sort of gone that way, it really isn't about taste. We liked the plans we saw and considered them a big improvement on the current house. I appreciate modern buildings and we were happy to have something striking and very different next door. Difference is part of good conservation practice.

It's a shame they haven't built to the design, and yes, I do hate the massive TV they have installed just behind the floor to ceiling glass panel. They don't have curtains and all I see now is flashing colours and light pollution outside our kitchen window. That's not a massive tv issue - my husband would love one - it's a consideration issue imho. And there must be a reason that window wasn't on the permitted plans.

Thank you, it really is. We found it completely by accident and have been so lucky to live here. We want to do our bit to keep it that way.

I should have said that one of the 'trees' on the boundary is a very old yew hedge trimmed into a pyramid and which barely clears the fence! It's probably 200 years old and there is no way we would be allowed to or would want to remove it.

Thanks, this is good advice. Until yesterday I didn't know using different building materials was something we could report as a concern. I did wonder.

You should be able to access the approved plans on the planning section of your Local Authority’s website.

Also be aware that it’s not unknown for a different set of plans (not the approved ones) to be submitted to Building Control. Building Control won’t check the Planning documents. As a PP said, Planning and Building Control isn’t joined up very well (and BCOs wouldn’t have time to cross check anyway).

You can report any breaches of the approved plans to the Planning enforcement team and they can take action.

Also look to see if any amendments to the original plans that you saw have been submitted - you wouldn’t necessarily have been consulted on those.

If nothing else, it needs reporting to the tree officer to ensure you aren't ever accused of cutting the boughs down without permission.

Thank you! This is the subject knowledge people come to MN for.

I have checked and the overlooking window is definitely not on the plans. No alterations or other exceptions have been submitted.

The materials to be used are specified, so that I can't parse the technical detail, but I have emailed a friend who can.

I called the council this morning and they understandably didn't pick up first thing on a Monday, so I have put it all on an email.

Yesterday I thought we could be disappointed by the extension but assumed there couldn't be anything for us to object to. I was annoyed that he wasn't leaving it there, but starting on our garden. Today, I really think we might manage to get the overlooking glass filled in and flag to the council that there is something not right here.

I live in a lovely conservation area myself and I know how inconsiderate some people can be about their property.

The Council will definitely act on your information OP, be assured.

Be aware though now you’ve officially Complained you are in formal dispute whuch needs to be declared if either of you sell

@cosmiccosmos I would say that it does annoy me that people plant trees right on boundaries and then moan when neighbours don't want massive branches hanging over their gardens. Why don't people plant them away from the boundary so the tree can grow within their own garden? We know why, because this takes more of their garden. You can't have it all your way. You do sound quite judgey to be honest, I would be interested to hear the other side.

I think cosmic makes a good point ,large trees on boundaries can cause problems .

guess you're not a great neighbour yourself if you think these things don't matter.To me that's an unnecessary remark ,rude and not based on any fact .How do you infer that Cosmo is not a great neighbour? Have they said these things don't matter ?

To come here and tell us to remove trees in our garden who has told you to remove trees ?

There's always another side ,and there's often some merit on both .

This doesn't worry me. I'm planning to stay in our house for life!

I'm hoping it is on the mind of our neighbour, as we have always thought he planned to max the footprint then flip. It feels like a safeguard to us.

I'm not Cosmo - feel free to check with MN if you like .

It isn't really true that there are two sides of every story though, is it? Not of equal weight.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if your neighbour hasn't followed all the regulations both with regard to trees and some aspects of his extension .Though we don't know this at the moment .
But that doesn't change the fact that there are always two sides of a story .I'd hazard a guess that in your mind what you're thinking is "one person is right and one person is wrong" with a little image of scales where you attribute weight to people's actions .
What I'm thinking is that life is more nuanced and that it's helpful to consider another person's point of view. For instance ,your husband doesn't like conflict and is a gentle and kind man .Why not reflect on that a little (that's his nature ,his personality ) and not proceed to designate him "a wet dishrag" .It's almost as if because your husband's personality means that he s not handling this issue the way you like then he's up for criticism .

I think you did start this thread with a side ,as you put it .You seem to have decided that it's likely that your neighbour is a cowboy with dodgy mates ,that he's stupid and wants to pretend he lives in Dubai and that he is a "city " person who has made a mistake buying the property .

If it helps, read back through the thread again and you'll see that I didn't originally assume we had grounds to question the extension, only the tree cutting.
I don't understand this remark ,I've said nothing about you assuming you had grounds to question the extension .

Report him for everything.
Especially the extension.
He can chop the overhanging bits, but without your permission only in a vertical line front the boundary, he can’t reach in and chop bits off. It’s easy for others to say why didn’t you do X, I would worry at the time or self doubt and not do something too.

Thank you, this is understanding. I emailed the planning department this morning and as people here promised, they got straight back to us. I have faith that they are going to take it from here.

Me again, no @amberedover and I are not the same person although no-one has seen us together at the same time 😎!

I'm glad you've contacted planning. My point was that going through the correct channels is the best way and recording communication. I do have experience of these types of situations and my advice would be that now planning are visiting I would get cameras up at the back of your house. This may sound like I'm scaremongering but if he is as you describe then he won't have any qualms about chopping more off.

I am still surprised that in-one has been onto planning sooner given what you've said especially given the area you live in.

My husband is a tree surgeon, he also works in a lot of conservation areas.

Does your conservation area have a blanket ban on removing/trimming trees if they are over three meters high. (This is usual round our way) in which case you need to speak to your local council tree officer as this carries up to. £10,000 fine if done without the councils permission and you want to make it clear it wasn't you.

OP I've only skimmed the thread but your neighbour has annoyed me too. I wonder if he's one of these people who thinks it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission?

Complain to everyone! Make yourself unpopular with the council's officers if that becomes necessary, you don't need to be on their Christmas card list. Hopefully, it won't be. I know with some legislation the office responsible for enforcement can become liable if they do not carry out their statutory duties. As liable as the person who caused the infringement in the first place. My memory is a bit hazy, but if the law reads something like 'act or omission' it may be the case. The council officers are aware of a breach, they have the power and duty to act and they do not, then they may be guilty by omission.

Obviously, ianal, and it's early days so keep your powder dry for now and see what happens.

This advice may be cobblers regarding planning, I was aware of it in respect of environmental health but it's something to bear in mind.

Good luck, silver birch are beautiful trees (and native). I've got one and I'd be horrified if someone were to damage it.