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Original poster

Neighbour hacking off boughs - conservation area

160 replies

JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 14:51

Hi all, grateful for your expertise.

We live in a listed house in a conservation area with a beautiful garden and mature trees. We are good tree owners, having them annually checked and trimmed, and have removed unsuitable overgrown Leylandii with roots too close to houses.

We have had new neighbours for a couple of years. We have worked hard to get on well with them but they have upset people by replacing the grass verge at the front of their house with plastic mat without permission, lots of cars and basically being a bit tasteless in a community people move to for its greeness and wildlife. They have massively extended at the back without keeping within the permissions granted. The male half of the couple told me he plans to pave and AstroTurf their garden, and that he dislikes our (rather beautiful) garden because of the 'messy' plants. We have 8 foot fences.

About six months ago he asked if they could take down the overhanging boughs from a line of lovely trees including silver birch on our side of the boundary. He considers these 'untidy.'

I said that we understood it was his right to ask and that if he wanted to work with our tree surgeon would not object. Under a bit of pressure from him I agreed that if he had a preferred tree surgeon we would meet them and provided we were satisfied, allow them to work in our garden. I felt uncomfortable about this afterwards as I felt what he really wanted was to get some dodgy mate around.

Today I saw him up a ladder, sawing through one of the larger boughs from our silver birch. He had given no thought at all to how to do this properly, or minimising damage to the tree. We have been in all day and he didn't attempt to speak to us.

My husband now feels I was unreasonable for asking him why he didn't knock on our door and ask before getting his saw out. He stopped, but was not nice about it and I am now really quite unhappy. I don't believe for a minute that he would have stopped if I hadn't caught him, while we have three very young children and the trees are in a built up bed by the fence where there is a substantial level change. There is a risk that the trees will become unbalanced and unsafe, as well as looking awful.

I am frankly furious, especially as we have been so thoughtful and accommodating.

AIBU to tell him he can do one if he ever so much as mentions working on our land again?

And am I right to think he should have had permission before the work took place as we are in a conservation area? I am not sure about this, but would love it if I could tell him no on this basis. We have always had permission before getting our tree surgeon in, but as we have been taking leylandii out, I'm not sure if this is what the permission is for.

Would really appreciate any guidance people can give. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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SuperSange · 15/01/2023 17:15

So, you need to report him to your local planning authority about the extension and the trees. You can do that tomorrow, probably online. Or even tonight. They don't piss about; I reported someone a few weeks ago and the enforcement notice has five live online.

Original poster
JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 17:18

watchfulwishes · 15/01/2023 17:00

When was the extension built?

It completed around November. We always thought they moved in planning to redo it and flip, but were delayed by covid and prices soared.

In all honesty, I doubt they want to be here. They are city people, he is some kind of engineer and clearly didn't understand conservation rules and I think they made a mistake on a speculation. It doesn't help us though, and I wish they would just sell up rather than try to change a beautiful village.

OP posts:
Myotherpetisamouse · 15/01/2023 17:21

The life expectancy of a silver birch is around 60-90 years so they probably haven’t got much longer to live anyway. It’s not usual to put a protection order on them for that reason.
He is only allowed to cut the overhanging branches though.

Original poster
JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 17:32

SuperSange · 15/01/2023 17:15

So, you need to report him to your local planning authority about the extension and the trees. You can do that tomorrow, probably online. Or even tonight. They don't piss about; I reported someone a few weeks ago and the enforcement notice has five live online.

Will do, thank you. This thread has been very helpful.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 15/01/2023 17:38

What awful neighbours. Your husband is being such a mug though. Now they know he's such a soft touch, they'll keep going. Can you persuade him to leave negotiations to you?

TonTonMacoute · 15/01/2023 20:32

OP, have you checked your local council planning page? Also check the government Planning Portal which has some helpful advice.

Original poster
JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 23:43

TonTonMacoute · 15/01/2023 20:32

OP, have you checked your local council planning page? Also check the government Planning Portal which has some helpful advice.

Thank you, this is really helpful.

We have been so careful and respectful of our house over the years and have had permissions for everything in the garden including replacement of an old toolshed. I'm starting to feel really angry and anxious about feeling the things we have worked so hard for are being undermined.

We can't give him what he wants, which is to live in a concrete wasteland, and I'm afraid if we continue to give him an inch he will take a mile every time.

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Original poster
JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 23:49

FictionalCharacter · 15/01/2023 17:38

What awful neighbours. Your husband is being such a mug though. Now they know he's such a soft touch, they'll keep going. Can you persuade him to leave negotiations to you?

Definitely. I would rather avoid conflict myself, but he seems to be a complete walkover for any macho bloke with a matey approach.

OP posts:
Original poster
JennyForeigner · 15/01/2023 23:55

FedUpSoDone · 15/01/2023 17:13

Please do keep us informed of what the council say, I detest people like this

Gladly! It seems so stupid in retrospect to have persuaded myself he must have got some kind of permission for the extension. It turns out my husband has always known it doesn't comply, he just didn't want to complain.

They must have thought we are complete mugs.

OP posts:
Monty27 · 16/01/2023 03:59

He's a law onto himself then. Get the planning officers round. That'll soon settle it.

Justellingthetruth · 16/01/2023 05:25

@JennyForeigner

talk to council about the failure to build the extension correctly and the trees

then update the post

Star81 · 16/01/2023 07:14

I would have thought they would have needed a completion certificate for the works which would have alerted the council to the vast difference i planning permission to what was actually built.

cosmiccosmos · 16/01/2023 07:45

Firstly he is entitled to cut branches overhanging his garden regardless of it being a conservation area. It is a shame he didn't take you up on your offer to get your tree surgeon to do it.

Secondly building control would not have passed the building works if they did not meet planning, esp in a conservation area so I suggest you contact the parish council and the council to log a complaint/concern. The fact your house is grade 2 listed is a red herring here, listed houses have to adhere to strict planning/alteration requirements (the reason so would never buy one). His house does not fall into this category. Frankly my experience is that in a conservation area the planners are all over this stuff.

I would say that it does annoy me that people plant trees right on boundaries and then moan when neighbours don't want massive branches hanging over their gardens. Why don't people plant them away from the boundary so the tree can grow within their own garden? We know why, because this takes more of their garden. You can't have it all your way. You do sound quite judgey to be honest, I would be interested to hear the other side.

BloaterW1 · 16/01/2023 07:51

On your second point building control and planning are completely separate and don't check each others area.

Beamur · 16/01/2023 08:00

Speak to the Council.
Their tree officer can explain the rights around neighbour overhanging trees etc.
Speak to Planning about the extension - if it's been there less than 10 years (I think) they can still take enforcement if deemed necessary.
Talk to your husband! He's going get your trees cut down at this rate by being so passive!

WarningToTheCurious · 16/01/2023 08:18

Firstly he is entitled to cut branches overhanging his garden regardless of it being a conservation area.

He is, but he has to give six weeks’ notice to the Local Planning Authority before carrying out any work to trees in a conservation area. It’s an offence to do tree works without the notice being in place (unless the diameter of the tree is <75mm or is dead / dangerous).

Original poster
JennyForeigner · 16/01/2023 08:22

cosmiccosmos · 16/01/2023 07:45

Firstly he is entitled to cut branches overhanging his garden regardless of it being a conservation area. It is a shame he didn't take you up on your offer to get your tree surgeon to do it.

Secondly building control would not have passed the building works if they did not meet planning, esp in a conservation area so I suggest you contact the parish council and the council to log a complaint/concern. The fact your house is grade 2 listed is a red herring here, listed houses have to adhere to strict planning/alteration requirements (the reason so would never buy one). His house does not fall into this category. Frankly my experience is that in a conservation area the planners are all over this stuff.

I would say that it does annoy me that people plant trees right on boundaries and then moan when neighbours don't want massive branches hanging over their gardens. Why don't people plant them away from the boundary so the tree can grow within their own garden? We know why, because this takes more of their garden. You can't have it all your way. You do sound quite judgey to be honest, I would be interested to hear the other side.

Next time, do you want to read the thread before commenting?

The age of the trees and full history is explained above - including that the trees substantially pre-date the house and that we were happy to do the work provided it was with a professional tree surgeon and the appropriate legal permissions in place.

I guess you're not a great neighbour yourself if you think these things don't matter.

OP posts:
Original poster
JennyForeigner · 16/01/2023 08:26

Star81 · 16/01/2023 07:14

I would have thought they would have needed a completion certificate for the works which would have alerted the council to the vast difference i planning permission to what was actually built.

Yes, I think this is why I persuaded myself it would be sorted out. I don't think he has applied for one though - they seem to be planning to keep the work as permanently 'in progress' and assume they can work something out over time.

Now I think of it, the work was done by friends and relatives, and without site basics such as a portaloo which we have always had to have. It was project managed by the owner, and I do wonder if his paperwork is in order.

OP posts:
BunchHarman · 16/01/2023 08:47

It turns out my husband has always known it doesn't comply, he just didn't want to complain

Your drippy husband is enjoying me so I can’t imagine how you feel. Straight to the planners. No more being convivial or helpful, your neighbour sounds bull-headed and unbelievably tacky.

AgathaX · 16/01/2023 09:05

You've been too accommodating and trusting so now he's taking the piss.

He's not allowed to trim trees in a conservation area without permission, whether or not they're overhanging. We live in a conservation area and have had to wait for permission to be granted whenever we've had to trim trees. That's the point of conservation areas, to maintain the 'street scene'. However, he's got away with building an extension larger than his plans allow, and deviating from the building style and materials specified, so now he probably thinks he's untouchable.

It's your responsibility, as much as anyone elses in your village, to report this stuff to the council so that they can act to stop it. He may well have built without building regs too, so that needs to be checked.

HeBrokeMyNecklace · 16/01/2023 09:18

As someone who has all 4 of my neighbour's trees and bushes constantly overhanging my property and garden (blocking out my sunlight whilst they get sunlight in their garden) and shedding their leaves (blocking all my rain gutters and meaning I have to keep sweeping them up) I am on the side of your neighbour.

I have to spend time and money keeping their trees out of my property and they don't. One of my neighbours just has the trunk of a tree in their garden and the actual head directly over my property.

I sympathise with your neighbours.

It seems quite selfish of you to just think of how your property is affected without considering the effect on them.

However they are being unreasonable for not getting planning permission.

cosmiccosmos · 16/01/2023 09:22

Actually @JennyForeigner I am a good neighbour, I've just had lots of experience of this type of thing and know there's always another side.

I really don't understand why you weren't clear when you originally spoke about the trees and the fact that permission from the council was needed as it is a conservation area. Your whole village sounds very passive if he's done all things you say and no-one has done anything. My parish council would be all over it

For what it's with, in my experience, the only way to deal with people like this is document every communication and go through official channels.

My comment re the trees was a general comment, I appreciate you didn't plant the trees, but this is a problem. My neighbours did exactly this ie planted on the boundary but don't offer to prune from our side, in fact don't prune at all and the trees don't look good.

MereDintofPandiculation · 16/01/2023 09:30

picklemewalnuts · 15/01/2023 16:53

Key bit being he came into your garden to do it?

That’s irrelevant.

  1. you are allowed to cut overhanging trees to the boundary, not beyond. This applies whether you have gone on to your neighbour’s property or simply leant over the fence

  2. if the tree is in a conservation area, and the trunk is more than (approx) 6in dia at 1.5m above ground level, you must obtain Council permission to do any works on it.

Personally, I’d be writing to the Council Tree Officer to protect myself from (unlikely) allegations that I’d carried out or permitted the unlawful work myself.

AlisonDonut · 16/01/2023 09:31

WarningToTheCurious · 16/01/2023 08:18

Firstly he is entitled to cut branches overhanging his garden regardless of it being a conservation area.

He is, but he has to give six weeks’ notice to the Local Planning Authority before carrying out any work to trees in a conservation area. It’s an offence to do tree works without the notice being in place (unless the diameter of the tree is <75mm or is dead / dangerous).

Exactly. It's why we used to take out trees before they got to the diameter that they needed planning permission to prune when we lived in a conservation area.

OP get on the phone to the planning people and also the area conservation people and get a TPO put on your trees.

Original poster
JennyForeigner · 16/01/2023 09:34

cosmiccosmos · 16/01/2023 09:22

Actually @JennyForeigner I am a good neighbour, I've just had lots of experience of this type of thing and know there's always another side.

I really don't understand why you weren't clear when you originally spoke about the trees and the fact that permission from the council was needed as it is a conservation area. Your whole village sounds very passive if he's done all things you say and no-one has done anything. My parish council would be all over it

For what it's with, in my experience, the only way to deal with people like this is document every communication and go through official channels.

My comment re the trees was a general comment, I appreciate you didn't plant the trees, but this is a problem. My neighbours did exactly this ie planted on the boundary but don't offer to prune from our side, in fact don't prune at all and the trees don't look good.

Because as my original post sets out, the nature of the permissions needed in a conservation area is the point I was asking for information on?

If you want full information, we live in a woodland grove community with on the edge of cliffs with protected forest including giant redwoods and with badgers and deer. The trees that he objects to include a historic apple which is part of the estate village orchard for the hall at the end of the road and for which our village is still known.

To come here and tell us to remove trees in our garden is like me moving into the wetlands nature reserve across the river and insisting our new neighbours shoot all the ducks.

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