Turning back garden into veg patch

[GinAndOnIt]

We've got quite a big space in the front garden which we're slowly clearing/transforming, and just a small garden out back.

We had planned a big veg patch out the front like next door but we're now thinking of turning the entire back lawn into the veg patch and keeping the front for the mature trees and borders. Is this a silly idea?

It's a raised grass area, with a small wall in front and a few steps going up to it in the middle from a small patio area. We have a table on the patio area, and don't use the grass area at all.

The back garden is also south facing, so does get the best sun. So I was thinking we could create a path (just a mown strip probably) from the steps to the back of the garden, and grow veg either side. Then it would be close to the kitchen too, which makes a lot of sense.

The only thing I'm worried about is what it will look like in winter - what do your veg plots look like? Will we just be looking at a big pile of soil for months?

I suppose that doesn't really matter, because we mostly have views of the front garden when we're sat inside, and we could pretty up the patio with pots or something maybe.

It just seems a bit extreme to dig up a whole lawn - would we be mad to do it?

I think the garden was obviously much loved at one point, but everything has just been left to overgrow and just seemed so daunting. But now it's almost like a treasure hunt. It's so nice finding little things that were obviously planted and got lost between weeds, that are doing well as I free them. I found another rose just like the one in the picture, totally hidden in a hedge and only found when I saw the bright flower about a fortnight ago. I love the determination of it to just carry on despite horrendous conditions!

My arms are totally like jelly now, so I probably will have a day off digging tomorrow.

I would love to see some photos of your borders if you'd be willing to share one day shove :)

Gin - it looks as if you are going about this the right way - ponder what is right for you! I think you mentioned ornamental grasses - so is it worth thinking in terms of a small version of prairie planting ? I'm not good at designing, but one of the things I do realise, is a curvy path through a bed is a wondrous thing..
btw - that is a rose in tip top form in that picture - it looks as if you are going to be a good guardian to what is already a lovely garden!
and as a postscript - I heartily agree that is a very good way of buying books

Oooo, prairie planting - that's a term I haven't heard before! Sounds intriguing. Will have a Google.

That rose has been there 10 years according to neighbour! It was all tangled up in the hedge and after a bit of fiddling about with the area, it seems to be doing okay doesn't it? I must move the other one that's trapped now too though.

It may be too small a bed though for true prairie planting, but maybe the 'feel' would work

Showed DP the pictures tonight (too dark for him to see the real thing!) and he thinks the current template is plenty big enough, so I'll keep it as that for now. We could always change it around or make it bigger in a year or two I suppose. He gently reminded me that along with the new back garden veg patch and more borders further up once bushes are gone, we will have quite enough to do for now!

Yes, that's the beauty of gardening - if you suddenly decide you want to widen a bed, you can! 90% of things really don't mind being moved at all, provided it's done at the right time of year and they get a bit of TLC in the process.

I am always making mistakes, so always moving things.

I love book's idea of a mini prairie-style garden!

Question: what else might be suitable to put on top of cardboard in back garden for killing grass and making ground ready for growing in spring?

I'm just wondering if I could pile on maybe grass cuttings, leaves? Pine needles? We have a huge pile of all this stuff slowly rotting, and it is free whereas soil is not

I'm not bothered about the aesthetic of this stuff dumped on the garden, but only if it works!

Gin a s long as the cardboard totally covers the grass, so it doesn't get any light, then grass cuttings and leaves are great. Not quite so sure on pine needles maybe in moderation ( I think they could make the soil more acidic) , but others may know better than me. In truth, anything that you would put in the compost bin should work - it will just be one gigantic compost heap,

Thanks book - it's going to look delightful isn't it! I shall just have to wander down to the roses if I'm feeling bleak looking at the back lawn

Not sure how clear this will be, but I've drawn up a potential plan for the border. DP was worried I would be spending a fortune on plants, so I've used plants that we either already have that can be moved, or can get cuttings from MIL's garden. Plus the bulbs we already have. The only thing we don't have is the ornamental grass, but surely he can't begrudge me buying just that

Whoops... photo might help!

Oooh Gin, you have lovely writing! And that's one clear and well-thought through plan. You have a gorgeous selection of plants there - you should have loads of flowers!! Things like feverfew, alchemilla, and hardy geraniums will self-seed as well, so you should find that the border takes on a bit of a life of its own! A couple of thoughts:

• what will it look like from December to about May? A lot of the things you have there tend to retreat below ground or go a bit tatty, to the point that it might look just a tiny a bit bare. Maybe consider adding one or two more things that are evergreen or that have winter interest for structure??

• This is probably just the limits of trying to do a 3D garden on 2D paper, but don't forget that with hardy perennials that come up later, you can co-plant with bulbs quite closely! E.g. I have early snowdrops, crocuses very close to the crown of perennials that don't come through til April/May - by the time they are leafing, the bulbs are long gone.

• In the opposite vein, it's worth having the larger leaved alliums (ME, PS) among things that are up enough by April/May to conceal the slightly messy foliage by drawing the eye away! Love the idea of clumps of the drumstick alliums - they work better like this, as I have found by making the mistake of scatter-planting them.

• You could add a few things that are slightly higher (but can still be kept low - I remember you said you didn't want anything too big) to give you just a tiny touch more variation in the vertical. Otherwise, all your plants are roughly the same height. Something like verbena bonariensis might work, because it gives you stature that you can still see through. I have a load that will probably set seed in the next couple of months - I could send you some to go roughly where the aqulilegia is on your plan if you like? Your grasses will have the same effect of height without dense foliage if you buy slightly taller (but again, not huge) ones.

• Feverfew (at the front) grows quite large in my garden (40cm or so), and some ornamental grasses are quite tall as well. Both may rather obscure the things behind them if you have them in the second row back - maybe bring the marjoram, sweet william and aquilegia further forward and swap the grasses, feverfew and something evergreenish into that third row back? (What do other people think about this??)

It's going to be gorgeous!!

Yes, good point about December onwards - I do have the odd thing lying around that is evergreen that I was just going to sporadically plant in, but nothing that brings colour during that time. Is there anything you would suggest for that? That is cheap of course

That verbena you've mentioned is gorgeous. I think I've googled it previously after seeing you mention it, so I would very very much appreciate seeds if you have some spare!

The Feverfew we have in the garden seems very low, but that may be because it's not had the best conditions where it is, so thank you for pointing out it gets taller. I was wondering whether to buy some lavender in spring, so maybe I could pop that in the Feverfew spots and move the Ff further back.

Oh and regarding bulbs, I have some snowdrops, daffodils and crocus still lying around that didn't make the naturalising areas, so maybe I will shove the odd one of those in too?

I did want to get some different sedum to what we have now too, a dark reddy/brown one maybe for a bit of an Autumny feel. That might have to wait though.

No problem - the plant is still flowering like crazy but I'll let you know when they are seeding up and pop some in an envelope. I find it takes a few months for the seed to ripen properly. Again, it self-seeds everywhere once you have it!

If you have clay, a Cornus with coloured bark might look quite nice - they like it quite damp and can be pruned readily, and are really tough. You can get nice ones with variegated leaves. They take very readily from cuttings - you literally just poke a bit of branch into compost and it will root, so if you have a friend who has one and wouldn't mind giving you a bit, these are very easy to propagate. Alternatively, in the spring, Aldi will have loads and loads of shrubs, including evergreens, for pence.

And YY to bulking up the bulbs. You can never have enough!!

Thank you shove that's very kind!

I have cuttings of a rosemary bush too (and can get more) if that might look nice in there somewhere? I was going to plant it with the other herbs elsewhere but it could just as easily fit into this.

I have just looked too , and agree, a nice selection of plants. I would put in as many bulbs as you have , and maybe some later flowering ones if possible - crocosmia and schizostylis come to mind . Don't forget hardy cyclamen too. I was also going to suggest a dogwood too - shove and I are on the same wavelength there. How about hellebore for winter/early spring - might your MiL have any seedlings to offer?
Bulbs for early spring too - have you any winter aconite , or anemeone blanda ?
I think I would weave the ladys mantle into more of a wave form , trying to join them up a bit further back, so its not just in clumps, but a sweep /wave IYSWIM?
And yes to rosemary in there somewhere , you can keep it to the right height with pruning.

I tell you what I would like, is something quite silvery? I suppose I could treat us to one bought plant this year. If it's a good winter one. I really like whites and greys with green.

Ooooh, how about a Corsican hellebore - silver leaves, green flowers, winter interest?

Or there are silver-leaved evergreens like Pittosporum tenuifolium 'Variegatum' or for a sunnier site, Eleagnus 'quicksilver'?

That Pittosporum one you mentioned looks quite similar to this one I have outside the front door! I've also seen those lovely Quicksilver leaves somewhere too, but I can't think where. Maybe it's in MIL's garden. It's very nice though.

Cotton lavender? though it needs to be pruned to stop it getting woody/straggly.

I've just googled that and I've come over all funny seeing yellow on lavender I weirdly really like it though!

its pretty if kept under control. The leaves are more green/grey than silver. I grew it to give a late summer nectar source for bees and butterflies, but its not as late flowering as I thought it would be!

Any idea what this could be? It was a cutting I took from MIL and I think it's a shrub but I'm not sure, and she can't remember what it's called.