Turning back garden into veg patch

[GinAndOnIt]

We've got quite a big space in the front garden which we're slowly clearing/transforming, and just a small garden out back.

We had planned a big veg patch out the front like next door but we're now thinking of turning the entire back lawn into the veg patch and keeping the front for the mature trees and borders. Is this a silly idea?

It's a raised grass area, with a small wall in front and a few steps going up to it in the middle from a small patio area. We have a table on the patio area, and don't use the grass area at all.

The back garden is also south facing, so does get the best sun. So I was thinking we could create a path (just a mown strip probably) from the steps to the back of the garden, and grow veg either side. Then it would be close to the kitchen too, which makes a lot of sense.

The only thing I'm worried about is what it will look like in winter - what do your veg plots look like? Will we just be looking at a big pile of soil for months?

I suppose that doesn't really matter, because we mostly have views of the front garden when we're sat inside, and we could pretty up the patio with pots or something maybe.

It just seems a bit extreme to dig up a whole lawn - would we be mad to do it?

Ah yes, googling that name throws up a lot of photos looking the same. I don't think we need quite so much of it though 😴

Yes, it does tend to take over a bit if not checked! It's doing really well in a shady and dry part of your bed, though.

I think you treat it a bit like a tree - getting rid of any branches that are diseased or crossing and bringing some light into the middle of the thing. Probably a job best left to the spring to make sure it's not sitting with open wounds in the wet and cold.

According to the RHS website, it needs no pruning. Ha ha ha!

Yes I think it will be useful for filling that space where not much else will grow. Completely shaded and with the pine tree hogging the soil quality. I'm wanting to extend that bed around to curve behind the roses so I do still want something there. Plus, the pro Gardeners next door have a little patch of it, so I figure it can't be that hateful if they've got it ;)

I would rephrase that as 'needs no pruning if you want your entire lawn to turn into a Juniper sea'!! That said, it's not a thuggish fast grower, really, so to get the size it has in your garden, it's probably reasonably old.

It's funny, soil under trees changes its character very quickly. In my garden, I have an apple and it goes from being really dry underneath the canopy to really heavy wet clay in about 20cm! I bet you find the soil alters quite quickly as you move away from the conifers and towards the area behind the roses.

BTW, I keep saying it but gindog is SUPERCUTE!

In my mind, GinDog is like Nigel - calmly sitting beside me as I potter away in the garden. In reality, he acts out that role for about five minutes before chasing after a squirrel/stuffing his head in a hole/galloping round next door's garden/'greeting' the postman

Awwwww, he's just a big puppy! Though I imagine keeping one eye on him and another on the plants is quite a feat

Yes, I'll quite often get a phone call from FIL in a field saying he's got GinDog in the cab with him if I'm looking for him. Half the time I've not even noticed he's gone luckily there's not many houses on our road and the people who do live here go rather gooey-eyed over him, so he just about gets away with it

Hahaha! That's brilliant that he finds your FIL! It's nice that your neighbours look out for him as well - I am always a bit envious of dogwalkers because of the way that everyone stops to chat. I would love to have one, but I don't think my very elderly, very grumpy cat would appreciate a puppy!

I know. He will just hear the engine of a farm vehicle or a Land Rover and assume it's DP. I think this has come from the many occasions DP has forgotten he's for GinDog with him, so GD knows the sound of an engine means RUN if you want a lift home! (We are good owners, honestly 😳)

If your cat is anything like GinCat, he'd lay down the law very firmly about who owns the sofa and who gets first dibs on breakfast, and then suitably ignore the puppy for the rest of time

Just a quick dip in to read -( DGS is playing hide and seek with DH while I have a sit down for 5 mins) -
You are doing so well Gin !
I do have lots of books shove - I wouldn't call any of them lovely though! Mine are all in one form or another useful/informative rather than pretty pictures! I rely on slightly older books too The RHS ones - encyclopedia of gardening /pruning guide/plant finder are my go to's , and I have my dear Dad's Readers Digest Illustrated Guide to Gardening ( I still really like the illustrations in this - very clear). I have a nice garden planner by Robin Williams , but even that must be 20 years old... mmm I'm sure I have a couple by Christopher Lloyd as well, but they seem to be awol at the moment !

btw shove - that Herbarium book looks sumptuous !

book MIL has lots of old faithful books, so I worry she would struggle to apppreciate a new book. But I really like the Herbarium book and The Naming of Names, so I think I'll order both and keep them for myself if I feel they wouldn't be suitable!

I was up at 3am last night wondering what to plant in the border behind the roses. I really need to dig it and start getting the bulbs in to calm my thoughts!

I had a bit of a dip in gardening for a while (after summer maybe?) but my mojo has suddenly returned, and I'm itching to get it done.

I'm off to the garden centre tomorrow for a coffee with a friend, and wondering whether it will be worth searching for some cheap bedding plants now the season is over. I must look into some ornamental grasses too, I really like the look of those the more I see them.

gin that is a superb book-buying strategy, and I will adopt it myself henceforth!! And laughing at your planning of the border at 3am. Once you've got the gardening bug, these ideas flit through your mind at the strangest times!!

book - for me, the old uns are the good uns. I think they often had a knack of presenting a lot of practical information in a very straightforward way. Nowadays, gardening books are very much more beautiful, but I'm not sure they're better at conveying the information in an efficient manner.

Right, I've started digging an outline of the border. (My goodness it's hard work isn't it?!) - I couldn't wait another two weeks when lovely DP can help, i need to know what shape/space I'm working with

How does it look? I'm torn between making it deeper, but then possibly losing the effect of the roses being their own sort of feature, or whether having it slightly narrower works better. I'm wondering also whether to make it deeper just at the end where the pile of grass is at the moment - but the soil is very dry from where the line stops, so would anything worthwhile even grow there? I'm not sure it's worth the effort to dig up loads just to then struggle to find a plant that would be happy there.

It looks like it might be too small when looking at it from the higher angle. Should it be longer so it goes further down towards the driveway?

I don't want masses of it because there will be more further up, but I also don't want it to look half arsed.

I like your idea of having something curvy at the back very much!

The size depends on what you want in there (oho it is the return of shove aka Captain Obvious!!) If you're looking for shrubs at the back and some hardy perennials and shorter shrubs at the front, you might want to widen just a little. Perhaps instead of kinking it in towards the fence, you could soften the sweep into a more curvy curve (argh, words are failing me, more of a rounded curve that is slightly wider I mean) and that would give you a chance to lengthen it as well??

All that said, there really is nothing wrong with what you have, especially if you are going for mid height (3ft) things and below.

It's amazing how much the idea of a bed at the back just transforms that space! I find this immensely satisfying to look at and ponder!

I can't decide at all! It looks so different from the two angles that I think I may need to decide which angle I most look at it, and just make it right for that way. I don't often look at it as I'm going down as I'm forever watching my footing incase I slip, but I do always look over that direction when I first come up the bottom steps.

I think I am wanting shorter plants in there. Two reasons for this:

1. with the trees on the other side and further up, there is already quite a lot of height and I don't want it to feel closed in. And also because we are spending a lot of effort getting rid of big things, so just some nice colour as I wander up is what I'm wanting to see.
2. I don't want to make a high divide between next door and us. It's nice that we can keep an eye on each other's gardens, and also see each other while we're both out pottering. I think it would feel (and look) quite antisocial to have anything too huge.

I'm not sure if I've ever uploaded a picture of the view from the driveway up, but our garden is off centre, so from the driveway view, it would look really odd to have anything too full there I think. I'll upload a pic in a bit to show what I mean! And, rather selfishly, NDN comes over our side to touch up the paint on our side of the fence, and strims the edge for us too. He wouldn't do that if he had to wrestle shrubs to get past I don't think

I put the hose pipe down to see how it would look deeper, but I'm not sure I like it. I think it would need a curve in at some point, but I wonder whether to just make the current line a tiny bit wider, and bring it down just a tad more. It's so tricky to visualise in my head!

I think there is no substitute for being there and seeing how it 'feels' as well as how it looks. Because there's only so much a picture can tell you! From that angle, I'd say that what you've marked out looks great and will make a huge difference to how your garden feels!

I do think it's worth walking up and down and staring at it a LOT. I've had my hosepipe out all over the place in the garden (that sounds WRONG) and it mostly takes me days of gazing from various viewpoints to be sure! I think I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I have been known to sit right at the top of the house and instruct DH to make minor adjustments in the garden via a mobile phone.

I absolutely LOVE the fact that you want to see your neighbours. So many questions in the spring on the forum are about screening, to avoid contact. While I appreciate that there can be really good reasons for that (some hair-raising stories of bad behaviour), it's really refreshing to hear from someone who wants to keep contact open. I also think you're right that anything to might close it in. (I also think your house and that of your neighbours is rather handsome). There are some beautiful mid-height shrubs and perennials, so it'll be gorgeous!

Oh yes I know, I am always so grateful for our neighbours when I read horrifying stories! Our village is so small, and we have a bit a link with most cottages as they're all farm owned, so we all have a sort of mutual respect and help each other. It's lovely. A lot of the houses are in pairs with not much nearby, so we stick with our pairs and look out for one another :)

I think I may dig up the current template, and then have a wander up and down for a few days and see how it feels. I wish DP was home more during daylight to help, but he always just says 'whatever you think' anyway

Will post a photo from bottom when I get back to wifi. I've also taken another photo which shows the autumn colours I'm starting to discover... for no reason other than to show you the garden is attractive in some bits

Here's the view from the bottom. Our side is already quite a lot heavier in terms of trees IYSWIM, so it would feel more lopsided if we planted more bushy things. And the other picture is from the top showing off the lovely patterned path, which is a firm favourite for me at the moment. It feels all autumnal with the hints of orange behind. Once that horrible hedge has gone from the left, it will be beeeeautiful (hopefully)

Your village sounds quite the idyll!

And YES to thinking about it for a few days. I find sometimes stuff just suddenly clicks and you just know you've got it. I reckon being a garden designer must be amazing, because I bet they just get there in 2 minutes flat, whereas it takes me days For example, I spent days sitting in my garden in the summer pondering a border and wondering why it didn't quite work... and all of a sudden one evening (on my third glass of wine, which is absolutely a necessary part of this process of getting inspiration, you understand) I realised it was because I needed to move an acer from a peripheral to a central position. Which I duly did this autumn, and it now works way better!

Oh, and your garden definitely and for SURE has some lovely things in it already! It's actually rather nice as it is, in fact. But what you are doing is a bit of a step change to a new kind of spectacular and amazing. (Also known as phase 2 of the addiction!!)

Ooooh, I can't stop looking at that first picture. That zing of the rose! The lovely autumn leaves!

That pine looks smashing, and if you take out some of that hedge to the left, your eye will go straight to it and it will be MAGNIFICENT! I am also a fan of your path. I think crazy paving-style things have a lovely texture that is now thankfully being divorced from their association with 70s concrete. And about time too! I have a bit of a thing for a path where things can grow in the cracks.