Allotment/Veg Patch - Thread 7 - The Harvesters Arms

[bookbook]

Well, it's been an interesting summer, to say the least.
We are now heading into the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness :)
Everyone welcome to join in and ask for advice , share their woes and just enjoy growing!
previous thread here

Morning!
My seed order has arrived :) . I had decided to try growing alstomeria from seed this year- its one of my favourite cut flowers , and guess what ? - Out of stock Everything else now ready to be put tidily away in my re -organised seed box .
Cedar - clearing up from someone else plot takes time and dedication.
You have reminded me of my garlic -some of mine is up, and I now have to think where I put the note of which variety is in which row.. I'm sure its on the notepad in the shed , mmmm
The paving slabs we have been moving have been there from when we first got the plot ...! They had been put down in front of the shed, just onto soil, so had not only dug themselves well in, but allowed couch to grow up between the joins, which was a real nuisance. Its now tidy there, but still rather utilitarian , but will be much easier to keep free of weeds.
shove - let me know how the mushrooms do - mine were a dismal failure last year, so will be nice to find a kit that would work!

Ceeedar - you're doing so well. Clearing a huge area feels like wading through treacle - it's incredibly labour intensive when you're trying to get it all done in one big push. I can remember despairing and wondering whether I'd ever be done!

On potatoes and blight - as you probably know, you can get more and less resistant varieties. I grew sarpo miro last year which are the VERY blight-resistant ones. They were OK. Taste wasn't the best I've ever had, but still beat a supermarket potato. Caro are supposed to be good too.

book - oh no! It always surprises me a little when seed companies are out of stock like that because you'd think they'd gather plenty- I suppose they have to guess how many they will need and grow accordingly, though, so it is probably all way more complicated than it is in my head! I think it is quite difficult to do from seed anyway (not that you would struggle, but it might be one less headache)- maybe there are rhizomes around still?

Chuck - I didn't know beets could go out so early. when do you reckon you will be putting them out?

I have an unheated greenhouse and every year I try to get something growing over winter with zero success . I tried some spinach and autumn peas.Peas did not germinate and spinach did notmove from the seedling stage... But I guess it might be about variety and not crop type?

Cedar - totally know what you mean about clearing the raspberrys! I've been at it for 3 years now. Ashamed to admit the grass,bind weed etc,are winning....

I'm forgetting my manners !
Welcome aboard Lua :)
I have had a small amount of success with spinach, but it seems to take forever to germinate, and fairly slow growing, so I tend to stick to perpetual spinach at the plot now. Autumn peas I tried sowing direct last year, and they germinated , but got decimated by mice ! So mine will be early sowings in late Feb in the greenhouse, direct sowing every 2 weeks after that is the plan ( subject to change!)

Thank you bookbook. Apologies for not formally introducing myself.I guess I just jumped in this thread, but I've been in mumsnet forever, I just have never happened to have seen this topic! It is great to hear tips from other people.

I agree that perennial spinach is much easier to grow. I probably should go back to growing it, but I confess I like the taste of real spinach much better.

Best way, jump in and join the conversation
I also much prefer real spinach, and grow lots in spring/summer . It did seem to bolt quickly this last summer though , even with repeat sowings.

No-dig beds? any experience.

i am a graduate in horticulture and it feels a bit against the grain of everything i was taught, however, my husband has hurt his ankle and cant dig at the moment (and I'm too broken for digging) so I'm looking at alternatives. i have ordered a book - organic gardening: the no-dig way which i hope will arrive today.

Shove we are going back to Sarpo mira having grown it the year before last because it is blight resistant (wasn't so slug resistant though!).

Lua the mice got most of my direct sown peas last year so I am planning to sow indoors. Sadly don't have a greenhouse so will be taking over the house with seedlings instead.

Book exciting to have your seed order here even if it's disappointing not to have something you wanted to grow.

My perpetual spinach is still growing away in the plot. The baby spinach did OK last summer but did bolt in the heat.

Morning!
cor - a horrible one too . I dashed down, to the plot thinking I would get maybe an hour in, but the rain has started in earnest, and its cold. So I picked celery and more ropey leeks, and chickened out .
nightshade - a bit like lasagne beds I guess? or weed membrane, and planting through holes , which works well for squashes . I must admit I am basically an old fashioned digger, but now its more 'forking over' as I build up the mulch!

Afternoon!
I missed your post this morning Cedar ! I am just so slow typing...
I have just put away all my seeds this afternoon, and had another look through the catalogue, as I have a 90p credit note - musn't go mad
I grew Sarpo Mira a few years ago as I was given the remains of a net from the NDN, and they were very good in terms of blight ( and slugs too, though that might have been luck! ). They grew enormous, but without a great amount of flavour to my mind. But maybe it was because they had grown so big.
That is the real conundrum with growing veg I guess - every year the conditions vary , so its really hard to compare good/bad harvest and taste is just as much affected I suspect.

People that have done studies say no-dig works well if not better than digging. The problem in my mind is that some crops need digging for planting (like potato, carrots, moving raspberries,etc). So I kind of do a hybrid thing. I don't dig the bed just for digging sake. Empty beds get a cover of manure and leaf mulch in the autumn. Through spring and summer I open channels where I add manure and then deposit the seed/seedling. I just sprinkle seeds for herby things on whatever soil I have and hope for the best. Usually works fine but I am not greedy for perfect and large veggies .....so perhaps ignore all I say.

Hello
I've moved to a new to me house and there is a small veg patch, about 4 meters by 8 which has a fig tree and 2 fruit bushes that I can't identify.
It also has a large sunny terrace where I'm hoping perhaps to grow things like chillis? Tomatoes? Cucumbers?

Here's a pic of the terrace. The veg patch is up to the left and you can see the shadow from the trellis that edges the veg plot, presumably for beans. Only managed dwarf plants before. Don't have a greenhouse but there is a shed with a window and the untility room has Windows too.

Following the thread with interest and excitement.have a coy of the gardening year next to the bed

I used to dig religiously but rarely double dig anything properly nowadays. (I did my entire allotment at the start but this was because it was infested beyond belief with bindweed and I wanted to get as many of the white roots out as I could).

I do use lots of compost/rotten wood/leaf mould as a good thick mulch applied at least a couple of times a year, and I will fork through places that are especially problematic (remaining bindweed/stones). But if the soil is a lovely, fine tilth already it really does seem counterproductive. It can absolutely work: I notice no difference in yield or quality without digging, though there is a huge one without adequate mulch.

It seems there is a bit of a revolution in horticulture happening with greater understanding of mycorrhizal interactions in soils! Quite exciting really. Did you see that Gardeners' World item about chopping plantain into compost to boost these?

I'm another one forced to start peas indoors because of pesky mice cedar! There's one that sits in my fruit cage, hold as brass, and watches me. I have called him Jeffrey.

Chilli- welcome and wow! Lovely house! Where are you in the country if you don't mind me asking? Things like chillia and cucumbers tend to do a bit better in a greenhouse in many places in the UK, but I think can sometimes be grown outside with the right aspect/variety/location. If you're somewhere a bit chillier (like me) there are still loads of things you can grow from salad leaves to pole beans to beetroot!

Morning!
it is cold and there is fog outside here .. and I opened the thread and saw the picture Chillywhippet has popped on . . That looks like a warm spot ! Welcome :) Are you somewhere that gets a lot of heat/sun ? otherwise chilli growing is definitely in a greenhouse/indoors.
I certainly don't double dig - first two years I did a lot of heavy duty digging getting rid of an absolute mountain of couch grass, bind weed and raspberry roots, and now I mulch in autumn with rotted manure, left over winter. I will then fork in and lightly/ dig out weeds come planting time. Due to that, most of my growing is down to sowing/germinating at home and planting out. I do direct sow some peas/beetroot/carrots/swede, but on the whole I don't have a smooth enough surface :)

Chilly - What a lovely patio! I am in line with Bristol and London. At my latitude, I have successfully grown potatoes,carrots, strawberries, rocket in pots and bags outside the house.
I agree with the others that you may need a greenhouse to get the chillies to fruit, but perhaps you can get a small one that only fit the pots (i.e. not a walk in)?

I also have a cherry and an apple tree in a big pot, and get some fruit!

Hello again! I think I got a bit carried away with seeds in the half price sale at our local garden centre. Complete beginner, so I'm working on the basis that not everything we'll grow successfully anyway

I'm desperate to grow raspberries on my plot, and know that I should plan to have early and late to maximise the crops. How many pots do you recommend for a half size plot? Any particular combos of varieties that you'd suggest? Varieties to choose from are in the photos - works out £3.60 a pot which seems reasonable

Aarghhh, photos didn't work! Varieties of raspberries in the garden centre as follows:
Glen Clow
Tulameen
Polka
Autumn Bliss

Each pot has one clump of about four 'twigs' in it so I don't know how many pots to get!

littlecupcake - struggling to write a quick response, as I realise you might need it before the weekend is out! I have 2 lots of 12 raspberry canes on my plot, one set for summer one for autumn - but I LOVE rasps. You might want to start with half that or even less. You can buy them bare root, which tends to work out cheaper. And yes, aim to get a mixture of summer and autumn kinds if you want an extended season (they need to be pruned differently).

Aldi and Lidl will have canes in over the next few weeks I would think- usually under £2 a pop but bare root for me still worked out cheaper.

Hi!
been distracted by knitting wool , and then saw shove's response and agreed on you probably wanting to know!
Seeds look good littlecup raspberries - some autumn, some summer yes ! and about 8- 12 canes of each for plenty .
I also think you can keep an eye out for canes - they will be coming soon. Autumn Bliss is a good one - just google the other varieties to see which appeals - I didn't recognise Glen Clow - could it be Glen Cova?
Also - lots of raspberries are grown at allotments, and they need to be kept under control, so you may find someone able to give you some ( I gifted about 30 canes worth this autumn...) But be cautious on that - you want tasty ones, not just good croppers,with no entangled weeds either - so you may prefer to choose you own varieties :)

Thank you for your replies! Bare-rooted, does that mean just the twiggy bits and no soil? Thank you for your replies. Being Mrs V Impatient DH and I went to the garden centre earlier and picked up one pot of each variety - each pot had three sticks (canes?) in it. Based on Shove's 24 sticks we could maybe do with a few more, so I will definitely keep an eye out in Aldi. I seem to recall Morrisons were pretty good for reasonably priced fruit plants in the past, too.

Yes, I did mean Glen Cova - whoops!

Just need to work out where the best place is going to be on our patch for them because apart from a shed and greenhouse it's a completely blank canvas.

Everything I've read talks about digging in plenty of well rotted manure before planting raspberries - where do you get that from? Garden centre? Stables? Farm?

Gosh, this really is going to be a steep learning curve! Lovely to have people like you willing to pass on their knowledge. Thank you

littlecup - they will increase over time. One bit of advice - don't plant the autumn raspberries in amongst the summer ones , as they get pruned differently - so either plonk them in a different area, or leave a biggish gap ( autumn ones - pruned February summer ones - pruned after fruiting in summer) Put them in a place where they won't get in the way, and will leave you somewhere to stand and pick them - so maybe near a path .

Forgot about the manure- ask at your site, someone will know, or have a contact You can buy well rotted manure in bags , but if you can find a reliable supply , ( be it stables/farm) that will be much cheaper .

Right, so keep summer/autumn varieties apart and label which is which and put them where there's easy access for picking. I'm going to ask DH to make a cage for them as well to protect from birds etc.

Great tip about asking real life people at the allotment, why didn't I think of that (that sounds sarcastic, but honestly, it didn't even enter my head to ask someone local)! I have a friend who has a horse, so maybe I'll start by asking her (assuming house manure is ok?)! What do you do, just dump it on (no pun intended) and did it in? Xxx

yay! I should mention, my raspsberries are not in a cage - funnily enough I don't have much of a problem with them. My fruit cage has blackcurrants, red and white currants - the birds ( particularly blackbirds) will strip a bush of those in no seconds flat ( bitter voice of experience !)

Horse manure is great - ask your friend, she may have some already well rotted ( at least 6-12 months old) but check that weedkiller hasn't been used for killing off ragwort. You really don't want it then. If its fresh, its best to put in a heap out of the way , and cover . I use a bin made from old palletts .

Hello all- quick green house hygiene question as I've just had a tidy up / moved grumpy spiders about. I've only had 3 seasons in it and the first two I pressure washed it first but I was home late in the season this year and didn't wash it. Everything got pretty mouldy- lost the end of the tomato crop etc, very disappointing compared to other years . So- I'm obviously going to wash it this year but I've bought some Jeyes fluid as well - is that a good idea? Also I save all my bamboo sticks for supporting tomatoes etc and I'm looking at them and wondering if I should really just start again with clean ones?