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Gardening

Find tips and tricks to make your garden or allotment flourish on our Gardening forum.

Allotment/Veg Patch Thread 5 - The Diggers Rest !

984 replies

bookbook · 01/03/2016 09:28

Thanks to teacuphalfempty for supplying the title .
so, its the 1st of March, the meteorological spring is here, and it's all systems go for the coming growing season. Let's hope for a good one -no pests and diseases, enough rain overnight and plenty of sunshine. Well, we can dream....Grin

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59
LetThereBeCupcakes · 29/03/2016 09:27

It was Tomatoes and Gooseberries. Bless him. Grin. Such a doofus! Still missing him though.

GrouchyKiwi · 29/03/2016 11:24

Spotted My parents say it takes 18 months for a blackcurrant cutting to grow a small amount of fruit and 2 1/2 years to get a decent amount.

mnpeasantry · 29/03/2016 14:57

Hi Grouchy, sounds like there is hope for my broad beans! Your weekend sounds lovely.

I'm 35 weeks. The weather down here has been gorgeous today with a random hailstorm thrown in. I'm hoping all this changeable weather is great for growing.

WhoKnowsWhereTheChocolateGoes · 29/03/2016 16:30

Funnyperson - it's a Swallow Rook potting shed if you want to google it, 8ft by 10ft. It wasn't cheap Blush but I love it so much.

It doesn't get too hot when it's sunny (so far). It has a window at the far end which I leave permanently open as I worry about a cat wandering in there and overheating if they were shut in. However we have the glass side north facing as it is to the north of another single storey building (garage) and if we had it the other way round I would be looking out onto a brick wall and it would be quite dark.

It has a half glazed locking door (which I don't lock, I'd rather thieves walked in than smashed the glass). It has guttering but we haven't got room for a butt next to it, however already had one on the garage right next to it.

I haven't cleaned the glass yet, but I think the outside top panes will be accessible with a mop and a stepladder, inside with a stepladder and a cloth. It is treated wood and raised off a concrete base, which DH laid. the installation of the shed was included in the cost.

The company also make bespoke lean-to versions.

bookbook · 29/03/2016 18:23

I am seriously jealous WhoKnows - but aren't you thinking of moving? Will you be able to move it?
Been in the garden today, and sowed some more seeds. And I did pull the first rhubarb, and make rhubarb crumble and custard .

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WhoKnowsWhereTheChocolateGoes · 29/03/2016 18:32

I know Book, I am so conflicted about moving (DH is much keener) and losing that shed would be a real blow. I know you can move them, it's the logistics of either taking it down in advance and storing it or having to time it for moving day that is the problem. I am stalling like mad at the moment. Envy of your rhubarb, mine hasn't even emerged yet (it must be a late variety).

Just checke and I could clean the full inside windows without a step (I am 5'5')

Notstayingup · 30/03/2016 08:05

Hello wise greenfingered ones, hope you don't mind if I join in?

Complete novice and have just taken an allotment half plot after being on a waiting list for 5 years! So many questions and have been googling like mad. Pictures attached

Our plot hasn't been worked for a couple of years (I think) and I have already bagged up around 15 bags of carpet that had grass and weeds grown over it (back breaking!) Also didn't get anything with the plot so need to think what we need to buy but main job is to try and sort out the plot.

Has rained like mad the last few days and it is really flooded. So whilst it's like the Somme I have time to plan and ask questions:

  1. Do I leave it to dry out (hoping it will at some point) The soil is very clay like and full of stones, I probably need to think about some manure or something to improve the soil? I have been picking out the larger stones (halfbricks) how many stones are acceptable/normal?
  2. I started trying to dig out the grass/weeds/dandelions etc, am I right in thinking I can't compost them (there is soooo much) should I burn them?
  3. I work full time and have limited help, so should I try doing the black plastic thing on a portion of the plot or is it too late now?
  4. I think it is going to take a while to get going, should I just make a couple of raised beds to start with on a bit of the plot and then tackle the rest as I go along? Want to make this a long term plan, so don't want to burn out.

Sorry, bit of a ramble and don't really know where to start clueless so thanks for reading and appreciate any advice

Allotment/Veg Patch Thread 5 - The Diggers Rest !
Allotment/Veg Patch Thread 5 - The Diggers Rest !
bookbook · 30/03/2016 10:24

Morning!
welcome Notstayingup - I just popped on while having a coffee and have to dash.
First impressions- try not to walk on it in that state- it will just compact the soil even more. There are lots of things you can use to improve drainage and soil - clay is a great growing medium once you can get it to drain.
Do you have access easily to your plot? It looks like you will need lots of compost, grit , and probably some lime- compost can be spent mushroom compost, rotted manure, and your own garden compost.
Back later - but the best ones for this are shove and spotted - they and I think ethelb all have plots with heavy clay , so will have lots of advice!

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WhoKnowsWhereTheChocolateGoes · 30/03/2016 10:35

Mine is clay too, yes to getting as much organic matter in as you can, I am hampered by having no car access and old injuries which mean no heavy lifting so I have to rely on DH. Definitely cover areas you aren't using to suppress weeds, I mainly use flattened cardboard boxes from work with milk bottle filled with water to weigh them down, they gradually rot down too, unlike carpet.

GrouchyKiwi · 30/03/2016 18:33

Apart from local markets, where do people get plug plant-type things from? There are several plants I can't find seeds for so would love to be able to look for a decent online nursery.

WhoKnowsWhereTheChocolateGoes · 30/03/2016 19:11

Suttons do a lot of plug plants, I haven't tried them for years though. I get mine at a local garden centre, limited varieties though.

bookbook · 30/03/2016 19:38

Evening!
I know most of the well known seed companies do plug plants as well, but I haven't tried them. If you want something not quite the norm, I know the secret gardening club has a lot of fans , though they may be pot plants , not plug plants IYSWIM - mostly flowers and shrubs, not vegetables . www.secretgardeningclub.co.uk/collections/this-weeks-plant-collection
of course there is also Aldi and Lidl , they do quite a lot of small trays of plants.

well, I have sat down comfortably, so lets help Notstayingup :)
basic things
keep all the bricks- they are very useful
measure up your plot, and make a plan - be it on an app, like others , or graph paper (oldie me!) this will help you plan. Find out where the sun comes up and down - any shade or trees to take into account.
Have a basic set of the best tools you can afford- spade, fork, etc
I know this sounds daft looking at your plot at the moment, but do you have access to water?
Be honest as to how much time you have , and pace yourself. That will help you decide how to attack it - raised beds to grow stuff this year, weed suppressant on other areas, or cardboard as WhoKnows suggests, and bring it into cultivation as you get things under control.
But yes to as much organic stuff as possible you can get to the plot.
Somewhere to rot down or stack non perennial weeds , to start making your own compost heap
Next
decide what you want to grow - I advise only growing what you like to eat ( this list lengthens as you realise how nice home grown stuff is)
Work out if you want perennials - fruit bushes/shrubs/artichokes/rhubarb/asparagus and so on - they will need thought as to position, even if you don't have time to sort those out this year, put them on a plan

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bookbook · 30/03/2016 19:38

Evening!
I know most of the well known seed companies do plug plants as well, but I haven't tried them. If you want something not quite the norm, I know the secret gardening club has a lot of fans , though they may be pot plants , not plug plants IYSWIM - mostly flowers and shrubs, not vegetables . www.secretgardeningclub.co.uk/collections/this-weeks-plant-collection
of course there is also Aldi and Lidl , they do quite a lot of small trays of plants.

well, I have sat down comfortably, so lets help Notstayingup :)
basic things
keep all the bricks- they are very useful
measure up your plot, and make a plan - be it on an app, like others , or graph paper (oldie me!) this will help you plan. Find out where the sun comes up and down - any shade or trees to take into account.
Have a basic set of the best tools you can afford- spade, fork, etc
I know this sounds daft looking at your plot at the moment, but do you have access to water?
Be honest as to how much time you have , and pace yourself. That will help you decide how to attack it - raised beds to grow stuff this year, weed suppressant on other areas, or cardboard as WhoKnows suggests, and bring it into cultivation as you get things under control.
But yes to as much organic stuff as possible you can get to the plot.
Somewhere to rot down or stack non perennial weeds , to start making your own compost heap
Next
decide what you want to grow - I advise only growing what you like to eat ( this list lengthens as you realise how nice home grown stuff is)
Work out if you want perennials - fruit bushes/shrubs/artichokes/rhubarb/asparagus and so on - they will need thought as to position, even if you don't have time to sort those out this year, put them on a plan

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bookbook · 30/03/2016 19:38

doh! sorry folks - dont know how that happened ...

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ethelb · 30/03/2016 20:19

Thanks for all the good wishes re the shed.

Sorry about the angry post we had just heard about a potential cancer diagnosis in the family so were a bit on edge.

It was fine. In one piece, including the bloody felt which is more than many other sheds on the site were Sad
Testament to DH's newly discovered shed building skills it had blown 5m down the allotment, landed on its side in an empty bed and was in one piece if a little warped Grin
We got it back up again and moved it somewhere flatter and drier really easily so don't know what burly builder who tried to (very generously) get it up again was doing Hmm

Unfortunately the foundations are a mess under a lot of water and will have to be redone. Got hold of some v high breeze blocks and hopefully should get it redone this w/e. Oh well.

Thanks for the recommendation about making a little hat for it to sit on the breeze blocks if that's what you mean in the description below... DH is threatening to postcrete a number of posts around it and nail it in!

ethelb · 30/03/2016 20:19

Btw, fruit trees for £3.50 in Lidl today, worth a punt at that price?

ethelb · 30/03/2016 20:22

Btw, our communal greenhouse roof is buggered, does anyone happen to know of any kind of funding we could apply for to get it fixed? Has anyone had any luck with lottery etc?

I am of course, aware many plots were much worse affected in the floods earlier in the year, but it would be great to get it fixed.

DoreenLethal · 30/03/2016 20:26

Right - on that plot I would...

Not bother to dig out the grass, weeds or dandelions just yet. Try and get it level or mark out the paths and beds...I'd cover the whole lot with cardboard and buy some straw bales and put over the cardboard. It will help weigh it down [you can use some of the bricks for this too]. And as they rot, will help to add organic matter to your clay. It also stops the clay drying out which it will do the moment the sun comes out. If you are going for paths and beds, I'd get some wood chip and put that down for the paths to walk on for now.

When you are ready to start growing things, cut a cross in the cardboard and peel the cardboard back, plant the plant [eg potato, squash, corn] in a hole dug under where the cardboard was, pop the soil around, water in well, and then put the cardboard back around the plant. It will help to keep the weeds down, kills the grass, soak up the moisture and stop it evaporating and leaving you with a clay cap which is rock solid and which also constricts the plant as it grows.

As the cardboard rots, then start to dig out the weeds that grow through. A fair amount will die due to their light being stopped, and you can dig the roots out at a later date. If you carry on doing stuff to that as is, you are going to squeeze out all the air from the soil, making it worse in the long run. At least with cardboard on it, as you walk on it, it distributes the weight across the soil.

As you harvest later in the year and clear small areas, then is the time to dig out the roots, and dig in some sand and well rotted manure, and again mulch over winter. This time you could use cardboard, straw, or sow a green manure that keeps a plant on the soil over the winter, and in the spring you chop it down and dig it in around a fortnight before you plant up next year's crops.

TheSpottedZebra · 30/03/2016 22:38

ethel - sorry to hear that you're having a tough time of it at the mo. Hope things take an upswing for you soon.

Kiwi THANK YOU SO MUCH for that info. You don't know how delighted it makes me to feel like I have a hotline to a family of blackcurrant growers! I feel like an expert. Ha.
I don't buy many things as plants as I like to play about with seed, but as I've said before, I do like my lidl and aldi gardening things. I've browsed a bit on www.organicplants.co.uk although ended up not buying. But their stuff looks good.

Welcome Notstayingup I'm on horrid clay too, and I moan about it a lot. My allotment is only metres from an old brick quarry - I don't so much dig as to slice bits of clay out of the ground, then hack them into slightly smaller chunks. Actually I try to avoid digging at all, once I've got the layout sorted.
My not at all expert advice is to mark out the beds asap and stay off those bits as much as poss. Don't walk on the beds! I shriek that a lot, if my DC are helping.
Also, last year was my first year and I dug out weeds, but they were encased in big clubs of clay so I left them, piled them up on the side until they were easier to work and I could remove the weed from the mud. Well, that time never happened, I wish I'd just got rid of the weedy clayey clod asap, as it just baked hard later in the year.

TheSpottedZebra · 30/03/2016 22:44

So, I said I liked growing stuff from seed - well I do if it grows. But my tomatoes have oddly continued to die (all apart from one variety that is new t me this year - it's called pineapple. Will it be a triffid that can withstand anything?) So I sowed more! Loads more! And I am chucking that odd compost somewhere else - it has been demoted.

And lits of my broad beans are in flower now. And we have a frost forecast tonight Sad Will they get knocked back?

shovetheholly · 31/03/2016 13:59

I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a tough time ethel Flowers

And Zebra - bad compost can just wreck seeds. It's really annoying because there's not much you can do. Fingers crossed for your second load.

I haven't been to the plot in an age - been away (all seeds were fine, phew) and then busy with the garden. I'm about to head off this evening, hoping that my peas have germinated and not all been gobbled by a hungry mousey.

Notstaying - that's a lot of puddled water in your plot! My last garden was just down the road from a clay works (where they make those Yorkshire Flower Pots) and I had similar conditions. I dug in a load of horticultural grit and manure and compost, with lots of gypsum (often marketed as 'Claybreaker') which helps to break up any hard layers. Within a few months, the soil was surprisingly workable. But I did find organic matter does need to be replenished very regularly, or it seems to turn back to clay that you have to dig out in blocks (and these harden and then crack in the summer). Also, in terms of debris, some stones are your friend on clay (except when growing roots, I'm finding!) but big lumps are not good. If you have loads of larger lumps, digging can help you find and remove them for use elsewhere.

I wonder if a combination of the above for the areas you want to work straight away, and doreen's brilliant, labour-saving non-dig method for other bits that you'll bring into use in a while might work?

teacuphalfempty · 31/03/2016 15:53

WhoKnows yes, toms under cover. Infact 4 days ago I tried some Costolotto Fiorencino seeds that I had collected from my garden a couple of years ago. I had plenty of seed so I put 10 to germinate and 9 have already sprouted roots, so I’ll be potting those today. With the 5 Harbingers, I don’t tink I’ll have room for any more. I’ll try some aubergines at the weekend. (And v jealous of your beautiful shed)

The Castell Pear is coming into leaf, but nothing on the other apples/pears yet.

A couple of days ago there was a beautiful strong but lonely spear of asparragus rising from the ground. I just went to look at it, with the idea it might be the star attracion on the dinner plate tonight, to find it a stump with mollusc slime clinging to it. Grrr. 😠

Look at me on here twice in one week!

shovetheholly · 31/03/2016 16:25

I love tomato names! Costoluto Fiorencino sounds like a hunky Italian model who can't stop posing on a Vespa. Grin

Notstayingup · 31/03/2016 17:34

Sorry for the delay in coming back, school holidays killing me! Had 2 days off work, but is easier to work! Had 5 children today and am ready for the funny farm!

Firstly, thanks so much to Shove, Spotted, Whoknows, Doreen and Book (sorry if I've missed anyone) have read all your comments and really appreciate. I went down again today to see if the waters have receeded - no! Met the nice couple on the plot next to us, who were sorting out the communal flower beds - they laughed and said that it'll be mid April by the time their plot drys out too. So I am going investigate getting some cardboard, manure, gypsum etc as suggested as soon as possible - think I can get my car backed down near the plot, so hopefully won't do myself an injury getting it all onto the plot and then am going to start one bed at a time.

Think I will aim for 2ms x 3 ms bed to start and think I am going to try and grow raspberries, strawberries and potatoes. Was going to do tomatoes but think I'll try them on my patio instead. The plot is right next to the water trough (not that I currently need it!) and in terms of the light, the plot is south facing, so gets the sun all day pretty much. I have a large and small fork and a spade and a compost bin and that's about it. I need somewhere to keep them down there, so will need to see about a shed or something (can see this getting expensive!) I will have do it as time and finances allow - am in it for the long term, I need a hobby that is physical but calming and it is lovely down there, really serene.

I have been saving all my large stones and bricks too, so can use them to weigh down the carboard (or start a rockery!). The next few days look nice, so hopefully I'll be able to get some bits and bobs done. I have 2 little ones who are 6 and 4, they are delighted with the allotment and just want to go down and dig for bugs, so am hoping it drys out before their enthusiasm does!

Thanks again for all the help!

bookbook · 31/03/2016 19:34

Evening!
Spotted - hope the broad bean flowers survived - it did get cold, but not a frost I don't think?
shove - tomato names Grin
don't worry about us Notsaying sounds as if you have nice neighbours! Raspberries need a bit of space, so if you are only doing one bed for now, I would wait until autumn to plant those, personally.
and asparagus already teacup ? how unfair the slugs got to it first. It is probably in my top 3 favourite vegetables, and cannot wait for mine to come through.
Been busy again today - another hour or so this morning getting potato bed ready- and still digging up couch grass around the outer edge of the fruit cage - it likes to get in and underneath the net, which makes it a right pain. My white currant has settled in , and showing signs of bud break, thank goodness. I know they are tough, but I seriously thought I had killed it...
This afternoon, I set off some beetroot in plugs, and pricked out sprouts,tomatoes , cosmos seedlings. It was soooo warm in the greenhouse - lovely :)

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