The 2015 Allotment / Veg Patch Thread Part 2

[agoodbook]

the previous thread is just about full, - well done spotted so welcome to everyone interested in growing their own veg!

Previous thread is here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gardening/2282529-The-2015-Allotment-Veg-Patch-Thread-its-here?msgid=53650520

I am vicariously excited about the new greenhouse too!

Peace last year, on here I was told about wildlife friendly slug pellets. I think it was Alternative actually who told me about them. They are certified organic, but the key thing is that they contain ferric phosphate, NOT any aldehyde. So they are cat, dog, bird, hedgehog etc safe. I tried loads of barriers last year - gravel and grit, crushed up egg shells, crushed pistachio shells (I was oddly addicted to unsalted pistachios at the time, so i had a good supply). The best thing as a barrier by far is copper tape. The rest was pretty useless I think, though it's hard to tell. I didn't try those wool pellets, but they look really interesting I think. I'm using the ferric phosphate pellets again, plus copper tape on pots. And trying to water in the morning rather than the evening, which will be tough as I am no lark.

Oh, and I would be so interested to know how the nematode slug deterrents go.

Chopper I tried the pellets that mat up, which did absolutely nothing (it was an exceptionally bad year for slugs- a spring where it did nothing but rain. My primulas grew to the size of cabbages).

Eggshells ditto.

I used to use the metaldehyde ones years ago, until I found a dead hedgehog at the end of my garden. I felt absolutely appalling. I cried and cried and cried about it. It was a moment of really traumatic change in the way I saw the natural world: I realised for the first time, looking down at this poor little beast, that everything I put out into the world goes somewhere and affects other creatures. The pellets went straight in the bin after that. I am trying to grow veg in pots until it reaches the point where it is slightly less succulent for slugs, and more able to resist their attacks, but I do wish I had something that could hold them off really newly established things.

cedar i can see how that would be the result! so far it is protecting the young shoots

i have some of those pellets too zebra, but i haven't tried them, so will do so

the bottom of the cold frame is lined with a weed-barrier sheet thing that has copper running through it and that seems to have worked so far, but i may be lulled into a false sense of security...

Exciting news on the cucamelons, Cupcakes ! I've not actually sown any this year
Last year's roots that I optimistically shoved in shed overwintered don't seem to have regenerated, so perhaps I will. I'll leave it a teeny bit longer yet I think as I am running out of seedling room. Did you post about when you sowed them? Maybe if you search this thread and the last, you'll have mentioned when you did so, and you could update spreadsheet?

my garden is so small that nematodes aren't a prohibitively expensive option

i would like a pond in a pot too, which might encourage more predators, and there is an inaccessible patch behind the lilacs at the end of the garden where the neighbours behind have chucked their christmas trees and garden waste over the back fence where i hope hedgehogs might find a home. normally the chucking would be annoying (they don't do it any more, and it was before our time) but we're not going to do anything with it as hopefully it's a good habitat

that must have been really distressing shovetheholly

zebra i was going to ask whether the cucamelon roots had regenerated - i'll keep holding out hope!

Hap to be honest, I don't really know what I should have done with them. Well, that's no surprise, is it ? I just put each one in a pot with some MPC and have put the pots in an unheated grow house (oone of those wooden/polycarbonate cupboard-like things). Then if it is sunny and warm, I might bring them out to bask a bit. I put the small bit that was above ground, just above the earth again and I keep it moist. Do you think I need to do anything else?

Oh, Shove I missed your slug-related post somehow. That must have been so upsetting. I found a dead hedgehog uunder some building supplies we had had delivered once. It must have got its leg stuck and b come trapped. It was awful. And they are really struggling now, aren't they? I asked the builders if they stack things to make them safe for little beasties, but they must have thought I was a pratt.

no idea zebra, blind leading the blind here

my mum accidentally strimmed the top of a hedgehog once when clearing a patch of grasses - it was bleeding and a bit shorn but fortunately not more injured than that. she brought it inside and it had a little home near the aga for a few weeks while it healed and it was set free - i do hope it survived ok in the wild

So for slugs:
nematodes for vegetable beds as seedlings or young plants go out;
Some ferric phoshate pellets not aldehyde for early/late season;
copper tape for pots;
woolly stuff for raised beds, possibly as well.
Thanks, that's probably saved us another year of over feeding our fat slug population!
I spotted a healthy hedgehog in our garden last year. Most of our neighbours are into a low maintenance/benign neglect form of gardening (like us) so the hedgehogs seem to get on. I suppose killing slugs might affect their food supply, so I'll leave all the borders and other areas nomatode free.

I've used slug pellets in the past, but I think they were pet safe ones. Would hate the idea of killing a hedgehog (that must have been such a shock Shove.) I will check to see if I still have the pot, and throw it out if it is the wrong sort.

Slugs also hate the sharpness of coffee grounds. Starbucks, Insomnia and perhaps other coffee chains give away their used grounds for compost/slugs and I use those a fair bit - spread widely rather than thickly around the vulnerable plants. The grounds from an espresso machine or plunger pot at home are also fine to use.

i spread coffee grounds in the pots near the back door. too lazy to go any further

I did the coffee thing once. The dog ate them all. He barely slept for a week.

Ferric phosphate is afaik bad for worms.
Not sure what the worms are making of all the coffee grounds on my garden. Definitely does not work on cats though, they are still digging up my garden.

Sorry cupcakes that made me laugh, but I bet it wasn't fun.

I'm a bit of a wuss and don't even like killing slugs even thought they eat lots of stuff. I'd be deverstated too if I found a dead hedgehog. Pests are only doing what comes naturally to them, and I don't feel its my place to kill them!!

I've had a bit of a potter in the back garden this afternoon watered everything, I've got a pile of stuff to burn when mini kimmi is in bed, and then it should be looking a bit more ship shape!! I need to decide what is going in each area and get on with sowing some stuff now. DH needs to get some grow bags for the greenhouse and then I can plant the aubergines, tomatoes and corguettes.

How should I fertilise and what should I use? I often look at things - bone meal, chicken pellets, liquid fertiliser, natural teas, and I get scared and don't do anything :-( I do use a lot of containers so I know I need to.

Oh and wd40 also works on pots. Spray round the outside of pot and slugs won't climb it. Can also do the rims of raised beds.

I too had a horrible hedgehog accident. Got tangled up

Bad for worms? Yikes, off to Google.
One thing we didn't mention re slugs was a barrier ring, eg a cut-down plastic bottle. Not a deterrent, more a bit of an obstacle.

Or beer, did we say beer? I tried it a bit last year, I caught some but I'd need a whole barrel to make a difference I think.

And bran, I've heard of that but don't really know what bran. I guess it's a textural thing, that they don't want to cross a crunchy line that takes the moisture out of them? It blows away though, doesn't it?

I managed to get some woolly pellets in Asda today. (I am so impressed with their prices, and kicking myself for ordering netting and trowels at 4x the price, to arrive with my raised beds.)

We have some coffee grounds to help tide us over too.

Do nomatodes kill worms?

Evening all
Slugs will get past everything to get something tasty- I've been relatively lucky at the allotment apart from a couple of courgette disasters last year, they ate through the young stems, but I can safely say they have sophisticated taste buds. Two years ago I grew cherry tomatoes and San Marzano in my greenhouse. I had eggshells, grit etc, etc. They didn't touch the cherry ones - just climbed up the stems and ate the San Marzano - virtually every one had holes in :(.
Actual straw worked well with my strawberries last year, so going to use that again, but will now have to get some coffee grounds by sounds and build a barrier at my greenhouse door.
karate - feeding in containers IMO is best done via the water, so a liquid feed while they are growing, though a good compost goes a long way. I only use bone meal when planting out shrubs for a slow release feed scattered on the bottom of the hole.

Right - advice on allotment paths please. I've got a small plot, with beds just in the soil, so not raised. As you know, I have been digging, digging, digging out weeds from the beds, mostly dandelion, creeping buttercup with increasing amounts of couch and some dock too. I've not used weedkiller, I've picked them all of of the cold hard clay by hand or just piled up lumps of mud when they've baked a bit too solid

Currently, the paths between the beds are just grass - but really it's weed, with the odd strawberry. If I leave them as they are, then the weeds will spread back into the bed, won't they?

Do I:

• just stay on top of it, weeding the sides of the bed regularly to stop the weeds taking over. Feel that this might not be enough, I spend lots of time there as it is and I don't have anymore!
• weedkill ? Eek.
• cover them with bark? Could be costly, and they'll all go everywhere won't they?
• cover them with membrane? but they are high traffic areas, it would wear through.

NB I don't have a mower, and we don't get any wood chip or similar delivered. And the council have a policy of leaving it all in situ, they don't give it away.

Any advice? Anything I could sow? If I did bark chips, would it be best to then edge the beds?

spotted - a tricky one . At ours we all have to have grass paths which have to be maintained. We lug our lawnmower there and back, but we do ours and next doors, and then they take their turn. Still have to edge it to stop the weeds encroaching.
Is it worth asking a local tree surgeon for wood chips ?.
I have seen suggestions of thick layers of newspaper with straw on the top, have you a local freecycle site for second hand pavers/bricks?

Ooh I could try paved paths between plots of I can scrounge some cheap/free slabs, good idea.

They'd not work between beds I don't think, as there's not enough room and the ground is not that level. Unless I dig it out...

Could try ringing tree surgeons, but getting stuff like that onto the plot is the problem I think - there isn't really any way to get trailers in, so it would have to be taken bit by bit from a car boot. Unless the path is lower than the bed, wouldn't the chips just go everywhere when you get them thick enough to smother weeds?

I really should have thought this through, shouldn't I... I'm actually a bit tempted to go the whole hog and dig out the paths a bit and do brick pathways With membrane underneath. But maybe I should try something easier for my 1st year, to see if I like/can manage having an allotment. Or, rather than paths, if I like it I might want to do raised beds. Hmmm.

Newspaper and straw sounds interesting and easily doable/cheap.

its a long term thing, and you may want to change your mind.
You've put so much time and effort in already . You do know you are allowed to not do everything at once :) . The newspaper/straw thing may work as well, as you may want to move the paths, and it will eventually work into the ground unless you keep topping it up!

Yes, I think I should possibly hold fire on any more ground works, and start doing some actual growing!
Although in related news, I did sow my first seeds (apart from some chives and dill that I bunged in last week) today! A row each of bolthardy and chioggia beetroot, and one of turnip. Might move some seedlings up soon, once we're over this cold hump. Frost forecast tonight here after another glorious, cloudless day.

The first thing I need to put out is borage, which is turning into a triffidy pile. I didn't actually know how m big it gets, I guess it beds to go at the back? Yikes, that need clearing too.

borrage can ge really big. the ones on my parent's compost heap must be 6ft at their best.
it makes great liquid fertiliser (if you an stand the smell)
I think I have some too, first though they were comfrey but the flowers are blue.