DGD wants to study Languages

[GrannyMay]

Hi all, Just looking for some advice, My DGD is in Y12, she’s doing her A-Levels in French, Spanish, Maths and English Literature, she’s predicted As and A*. In GCSE she got 7-9s (7s were Science, 8 in History and PE, 9 in English, Maths, French and Spanish).
We are working class family; in our town most kids don’t go to uni and although my husband did go to uni it’s been a long time so we feel out of our depth.

DGD really wants to study French and Italian, she isn’t sure what she wants to do after but she loves learning languages and about different cultures. School are encouraging her to apply to Oxbridge but she doesn’t think she stands a chance. Her goal would be UCL.

Does anyone have any advice, careers she could do after? Things she should be doing now?
Shes had an incredibly difficult childhood and has lost both her parents so I really want to support her in achieving her dreams.

Would she need an A-Level or atleast GCSE in both languages? Her school doesn’t offer Italian?

Any and all advice much appreciated!

Another Oxford languages graduate here. It's a wonderful place to study, and has a much more diverse student body than when I was there (early 90s). There are lots of shy, quiet people and lots of staye school people.

Many (or even most) universities offer joint language degrees where you start one language from scratch. I'm pretty sure Italian is one of the ones often available from scratch.

As for what she can do afterwards, there are lots of choices. She could become a teacher (like me)!

Thanks - no you didn’t jump down my throat at all - but that’s why I don’t shy away from saying I didn’t enjoy it because over the years I’ve felt people somehow think that I should keep schtum or it’ll seem like I’m ungrateful for the opportunity which isn’t the case at all. I just think it’s important that I’m honest about my personal experience.

UCL is a great first choice university as it offers American style degrees where you can combine combine subjects rather than follow a discrete course. I would encourage her to look at languages with another subject, such as languages with law, economics or humanities. If you have one language at A 'level, you can start another at uni from scratch. You can always specialise or do something more vocational as a post grad. I did French and Spanish (ab initio) with economics and then did a marketing diploma. I am now a teacher.

My DS had a great time at UCL studying geography with German as a subsidiary and had a year in Vienna, which he loved. The only caveat with languages is that Brexit means we no longer have the Erasmus scheme making it much harder and much more expensive for students to do their year abroard. (Fortunately, my DS was in the last Erasmus year and his study was fully funded.)

Just to say with her background, it is worth looking at the offer from the widening participation teams at each university. Where I work we’d consider her care experienced and be looking at more flexibility for an offer and priority for PT jobs, scholarships etc

if it were my daughter I might encourage her to look at other languages like Chinese , Russian , Arabic as I expect that’s where she might find more career opportunities

Agree with this
I would think these will offer more job opportunities but I would also try and find a good reputable experienced careers advisor and seek advice from them

I also don’t think she should just focus solely on languages she will be limiting herself, she should be pairing it with something else to open up more job opportunities
She really needs to focus on her needs and not just on her wants and stay open minded

Please encourage your DGD to apply to Oxbridge. She has nothing to lose. Applicants for modern foreign languages have to do the MLAT (modern languages aptitude test). Past papers are here: https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests/mlat? You DGD could do a couple in French and Italian to see how it feels. I agree with PPs who are suggesting a different language to run alongside French, to open up career choices.

Another thing she might do is an Italian GCSE. If she's been teaching herself and is already reading books, she will almost certainly be up to it. You should be able to pay as a private candidate and have her sit it at school next year.

DD is in her final year at Oxford (MFL). Her closest friends, all engineers, are comprehensive-educated. She absolutely loves Oxford and will be staying for at least another year, working and doing further study. The year abroad was a bit grim (awful accommodation, constant pestering by men, unfriendly fellow students) but not so awful that she goes back to see friends.

As a UCL graduate myself (not MFL), I want to endorse it as your DGD's seond choice. Totally different to Oxford, of course, but a great way to get to know the capital.

I'm not convinced of this. A good languages degree should give you all the critical thinking and historical knowledge that would be expected in many humanities degrees, I wouldn't say it was limiting at all. Any non-language-specific jobs are unlikely to specify a degree in, say, international relations. And if you focus on languages you'll be better at them, giving you the edge over joint courses with another discipline.

I wouldn’t agree with that, I think it would be limiting, considering what is going on with AI at the moment people need to have their hands in a few pots that will enable them to switch and change between careers

'...doesn't go back to see friends'. Not able to edit!

I see your point re flexibility, but I would still argue that a good languages degree provides that. It's not just being able to speak/ translate the language, it's being able to analyse different kinds of information, being able to read and understand anything from philosophy to feminist theory to newspapers to comics, being able to write well in various styles, and more. There's reasonable concern about AI damaging career prospects for non-literary translators, but that's far, far, from the only job prospect for a languages grad.

@GrannyMay My DD actually has a degree in French and Italian from Bristol. When she starts looking she will find fewer Italian degrees. Therefore look at the best for Italian!

Oxbridge is of course first class but Durham is excellent and Bristol is one of the best for Italian. Lots of students take Italian with no Italian A level or GCSE. DD actually had Italian A level but once dc have had their semester in Italy they all catch up. She had French A level
too.

Yes, I do think some courses offer more literature modules but there’s a huge advantage in doing these. For many grads, they are not seeing MFL as a vocational course. It’s a degree to open many doors. DD converted to law and is a barrister. Being good at analysing the written word is a very useful skill. Along with logic and a good memory. Plus anyone learning MFLs has a skill many don’t have!

My DD really enjoyed Italian. Preferred it to French and still does. The other advantage of places like Bristol is that they have direct links with a number of Italian universities. You don’t have to find your own placement with a firm or at a university which can be stressful. DD went to a university in Switzerland for her French semester and that was a brilliant experience.

The best universities have excellent careers advice and she should get as much info as possible about jobs.

I really would not worry about who else is at the university. Having confidence will come! No one thinks anyone else isn’t worthy of their place. DD wasn’t sold on UCL. London didn’t interest her at that time but now lives and works there.

I studied Russian at Birmingham. I chose Birmingham because the course was less heavy on literature but covered a lot of social science / history / economics as you might expect given the history of the Soviet Union.

I worked in Russia for a few years after uni and then joined the civil service (in a role that didn't use my Russian but I didn't mind that so much by then). In my peer group, there are those who joined the big 4 consultancies, other parts of the civil service (such as diplomatic service), teaching, armed forces (intelligence), law conversion. Probably some others that I've lost track of since we've all gone our separate ways. MFL degrees open up so many other skills in terms of critical analysis, presenting, retaining information, ability to see things from different viewpoints etc. I don't think they need to lead to a specific job but instead can open up lots of possibilities.

@Someone2025 What sort of subject would you suggest tho to pair with (say) French? IMHO taking (say) French and business or French and marketing is not going to get you anywhere further, career wise; much better to stick to your passion. A degree in two MFLs will extend her skills and be an excellent start. Unless your degree is very vocational (med, vet, engineering) or maybe science based it is really just a basis for lots of careers. She’s unlikely to find a job that requires MFL but the subjects will still be useful in so many ways.

Don't discount Oxbridge but also don't push her towards it if it's not really what she wants. It's very different to other universities and doesn't suit everyone (speaking as someone who went to Oxford from a state comprehensive and hated it).

Re UCL - bear in mind the cost of going to uni I'm London! Also it might not be as great socially as a campus university.

Wishing her lots of luck!

Also business grads are two a penny. Unless you target universities like Bath and others offering management degrees that are very competitive, I agree, business doesn’t get you any further forward. It can actually narrow down options. Certainly marketing does.

Also I meant to add: if Russian is not a passion, don’t do it. My DD wasn’t bothered about Russia and loves everything Italian. Spending time travelling in Italy was a joy. The same won’t be happening in Russia so the learning experience is more of a slog. Enjoying what you are studying matters too.

My DS did 2 languages French and German at A level, which he loved but went along with his other subject at University. His close friend applied for Cambridge and did do well enough to get in, but failed the interview where she had to talk about art for 5 minutes in French and she didn’t have enough knowledge. She went to Southampton to do French and Spanish, where she really well, she did her one year in Spain, this was one of the reasons my DS didn’t go for languages at Uni as he always said he wanted to stay home.

It might be easier to get in from a low performing state school. I think there are plenty of state school kids these days and hopefully she'd find them. There are also schemes to help the adjustment, you will find more on the Oxbridge board on here. Once you have a degree from there, most employers in all sectors will look twice at you.

UCL will be very very expensive to live, especially once out of halls - but also lots of fun. It sounds like she's really looking at the courses so go for one she loves. Many jobs just want a degree so it doesn't matter but with that level of love for language, I think she could try and get a job in France or Italy for a few years.

My son is similar, he loves Spanish and is just naturally talented at languages. He wants to take A level but it's looking difficult at his current school and he doesn't want to leave. I would encourage him to go to Spain or South America for a few years afterwards and make the most of it.

On the diplomatic service, it is very hard to break into (Diplo Fast Stream is 2-4 places). The only plus is you don’t need a language degree, just an ability to pick up languages. So if OP’s DGD decides on something different but still wants to pursue, it’s still an option!

@GrannyMay as your DGD doesn’t know what she wants to do, perhaps a joint degree such as a language and international relations would be good? Two languages may be too much. Also avoid the lit heavy Oxford (not sure of Cambs). UCL is a great target.

@Mindymomo MFLs suit outgoing confident people. They are 20/21 by the time they go abroad. It’s a bit limiting if a linguist won’t travel. Even at A level.

My DD did get a place at Oxford A but dropped a grade on her 3rd A level so didn’t go. There’s a need to have a broader “education” at Oxbridge interviews. They do not follow the A level curriculum. It’s about how you engage with the interviewers, how you respond to the unexpected, and to some extent, how you think on your feet. DD had to translate a poem she hadn’t seen. (Other candidates said they had!) Then they asked her questions on it. It was about WW1 and she hadn’t studied that either. However she had seen tv programmes and knew something about the horrors of it and the sentiments expressed in the poem. Shame about her A level results but it’s made no difference whatsoever to her career where she thinks on her feet all the time!

DH and I are both language grads from Durham. He started off triple languages with French, German and then Russian ab initio and dropped the Russian for final year. He's in project management. I did combined arts linguistics, Spanish and Russian. Few years later went back to uni and now in health care.

There is a pretty wide variety amongst friends from uni. Speech and language therapy, law, publishing, banking (did maths and a language).

Not many people do straight up 100% "I use my degree" type jobs such as teaching or interpreting but a language degree can offer a lot of transferable skills.

Your dad sounds amazing!

Another one here suggesting she gives Oxbridge a look. The application process is rigorous so a good test of whether you enjoy it or not. Not everyone does, and that's fine. She still has 4 others choices to put down.

DS was fortunate enough to get in and loved every minute. He did raise an eyebrow at how hard he was working compared to his friends at non Oxbridge Unis. It was v intense - but so is he! On one plus side,v the accommodation was muuuuch cheaper than we have been paying at Uni for our other son. Shorter terms and college subsidies made it very manageable.

PS You're dgd sounds amazing!

If you can, have her visit a few university open days and speak to their language departments. She will gain an understanding of what the courses offer and how different a similarly named course can be at different universities.

In the end, the cost of tuition is the same everywhere. She should apply to the best she can acheive given predicted grades and the courses that most appeal to her.

Remember to include a course that she really likes but has a slightly lower entry requirement as an 'insurance' choice.

Languages are a great choice. And if she is interested in Italian, don't try to push her towards Mandarin or Arabic. She has to be motivated by a fascination with the language and culture and life in a place - any of these can lead to a solid career path. There's no point studying Mandarin if you are not a person who would welcome the chance to live and work in China. I'd love it! Others wouldn't.