DGD wants to study Languages

[GrannyMay]

Hi all, Just looking for some advice, My DGD is in Y12, she’s doing her A-Levels in French, Spanish, Maths and English Literature, she’s predicted As and A*. In GCSE she got 7-9s (7s were Science, 8 in History and PE, 9 in English, Maths, French and Spanish).
We are working class family; in our town most kids don’t go to uni and although my husband did go to uni it’s been a long time so we feel out of our depth.

DGD really wants to study French and Italian, she isn’t sure what she wants to do after but she loves learning languages and about different cultures. School are encouraging her to apply to Oxbridge but she doesn’t think she stands a chance. Her goal would be UCL.

Does anyone have any advice, careers she could do after? Things she should be doing now?
Shes had an incredibly difficult childhood and has lost both her parents so I really want to support her in achieving her dreams.

Would she need an A-Level or atleast GCSE in both languages? Her school doesn’t offer Italian?

Any and all advice much appreciated!

This is a lovely post to read. I am a French and Spanish graduate (Exeter) and I work directly with languages (interpreter, translator and content writer). Obviously this is a very ‘obvious’ route but there are so many other things you can do with languages and it is a great skill.
My advice - forget Oxbridge. They focus heavily on studying literature and not actual language learning/culture. It’s no fun and no variety.
I loved Exeter but I have language friends from Birmingham, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol, Manchester. All great options
Good luck DD! Bonne chance! Do PM me if you want help

You can look up the requirements for most courses on line - but I think it would be unusual to expect Italian and French gcse for a combined course

if it were my daughter I might encourage her to look at other languages like Chinese , Russian , Arabic as I expect that’s where she might find more career opportunities- and a much more exciting look at language and culture . Again it’s unlikely that a university would expect any prior qualifications

Your starting point regarding needing GSCE or Alevel is the university websites which will state the entry requirements.
I only know two people with foreign language degrees and one works for a publishing company (in English despite her degree being in a foreign language) and the other teaches.

I'm afraid I have no advice here as I only have little ones but just wanted to say I'm so sorry for the heartbreak you must all have endured and what wonderful grandparents she has to bring her up and support her dreams.

All I know about languages is that it can open a lot of doors in the future in many different industries, not to mention the opportunity to work in other countries around the world - as a lover of travel I would have loved to be able to speak at least 1 other language! Good luck to her xx

This is lovely to hear as do many schools and unis are becoming limited in their numbers of MFL students.
DSS is doing 2 languages at Alevel but the unis he looked at will allow you to pick up another language from beginner level if you are already proficient in one language ie French degree with Italian from beginner level.
Some unis are looking to reduce/reconfigure courses in MFL - ask some blunt questions at open day about what will continue to be available.

Many universities ( Cambridge is one) expect the student to pick up a new language from scratch as well as the A level one so French and Italian is certainly a possibility. Don’t discount Cambridge and encourage your GD to go to the open days for the languages facilities. My DGD is also hoping to study languages and Cambridge is her first choice, though she is equally open to other unis, she has already been to a couple of open days. You have to apply fairly soon in the Autumn term so it’s good she is thinking about this now.

I have friends we did languages who work for diplomatic service, teach, working in marketing, work for language assessment companies.
Durham and Bath were well regarded as well as options already suggested. Agree that Cambridge is very lit heavy - no knowledge of Oxford.

DGD really wants to study French and Italian, she isn’t sure what she wants to do after but she loves learning languages and about different cultures.
Would she like a joint honours in International Relations with a language?

Argh I'm an Oxford ML tutor and that's not true about Oxbridge! Yes, our courses are very literature heavy, but half the course focuses on language (the other half on literature). Contemporary culture is a big focus in both language and literature 'papers' (modules). Our graduates go on to all sorts of different careers, some directly involving languages and some not.

Please don't write off Oxbridge (unless your DD really doesn't enjoy literary analysis)!

Our students have a lot of fun and there is a lot of variety.

Exeter is also a great place to do ML and there are wonderful colleagues there. But Exeter and Oxbridge aren't really so different.

I think she has looked at this but decided she preferred the content on the 2 language courses. She’s obsessed with learning Italian right now, when she’s not studying or at her sport she’s reading Italian books etc.

I read Modern Languages at Oxbridge (Oxford specifically) and absolutely loved it. Someone up above in the thread said it's 'no fun and no variety' - I couldn't disagree more. The first year was a bit prescriptive but after that we had a lot of free choice when it came to modules. I ended up writing my final year dissertation on Old Frisian linguistics, and also studied literature, historical and sociolinguistics, culture, translation - it was fantastic. I now work as a civil servant and am training PT for the Bar - neither of these things are directly related to my degree of course but it has certainly set me up well.

With her grades your DGD should have a lot of choice about where she goes - MFL degrees are sadly rather undersubscribed and universities are desperate for good and motivated students so would imagine she'll end up with a nice range of offers when the time comes. Depending on her preference she might want to look at some of the Scottish unis which I think tend to be very flexible in the first two years (so she could 'major' in MFL but 'minor' in other subjects that she's interested in too). When she's exploring uni options she should also ask about the support offered on the Year Abroad - I imagine that since Brexit it's harder for students to plan their third year, and so she might prefer a uni which has a well established programme rather than just letting students get on with it.

I think DGD is worried she wouldn’t fit in with the oxbridge crowd, she’s quite shy, keeps herself to herself. Worried that she would stick out coming from a low performing state school etc.

She could apply to read French and beginners' Italian at Oxford. A very popular course.

If she applies to Oxbridge, the interview would be like a mini tutorial, so she could see whether she enjoys the interview. If she enjoys the interview, that would be a positive indicator of how happy she would be at Oxbridge.

I would tell her to go ahead and apply to Oxbridge; she has nothing to lose, and if she ends up at UCL, well, that's great too.

We're very keen to recruit more state school students (and at the college where I teach, there are many more students from state schools than from independent schools in ML).

Please don't worry about your DGD not fitting in at Oxbridge. In my current year of finalists, the majority are from state schools. Our well-being team is very strong and we offer a lot of reassurance to students who are feeling anxious or wrestling with other mental health issues. In general, Oxbridge students get more individual attention than students at other universities, because there is more funding available to help them.

Oxbridge is an ideal place for the shy geeky student! Your DGD would find a whole community of shy geeky students. Yes, there are extroverts, but they're in the minority.

Many tutors also come from underprivileged state school backgrounds. I did.

This is very reassuring, I’ll be sure to pass this on to her!
Shes such a bright girl, never fails to amaze me, often wonder where she’s got her brains from!
Shes loved learning languages for a long time now, we took her to France on holiday when she was about 9 and that seemed to spark it. Shes been learning Italian in her free time for a few years now and can now read books in Italian (with some translation help) her French is incredible now too. She integrates her love of languages into so much of her life from listening ti music in other languages to watching tv and reading.
Shes an amazingly hard working diligent girl and when I consider everything she has been through (both my son and her mum were addicts, she had a turbulent childhood and we were luckily able to keep her from going into care but the scars of losing your mum at 6 and dad at 15 run very deep). I just want to see her achieving her dreams and support her the best we can.

Obviously it's totally up to your DGD and which course appeals to her most, but on paper, she sounds amazing and exactly the sort of person we'd be looking for at Oxford. I'm sure she will thrive wherever she ends up! ❤

Feel free to DM me in future if she has any questions about applying to French at Oxbridge. There is lots of great info online, and the open days are also good (see my username, ha!) but I'm keen to help students from state schools demystify the whole Oxbridge application process.

She sounds brilliant! You can start a second language from scratch at most unis I think, at Oxford it's called "ab initio"; the Latin terms for things sound a bit poncey but that doesn't reflect real life. I think she should definitely go for Oxbridge if she fancies one of the courses, the drive to study and read in Italian shows she's the sort of student who'd fit in and do well. It's true it's fairly literature heavy, but it's 50/50 in terms of language/ literature examination/ assessment, so it's not true that there's no variety. I had a lot of choice in my papers (topics) after first year, I really got to choose where to take my studies with personalised support, which was brilliant. My dissertation topic was very niche and "non-standard", I was well supported and enjoyed it immensely.
It's not perfect, and there it often feels like a lot of pressure especially at first. But welfare support is usually very good (varies a bit between colleges), and all of my tutors have been very supportive. Some of them were state school and first gen uni themselves, and so have a particular interest in supporting first gen students (others I've no idea what their secondary education was!).
In terms of accommodation, it's often a lot cheaper than other universities, because the rental terms are much shorter (there is also support for care leavers especially if you can't move in and out each term for any specific reason). Students starting on full maintenance loan are eligible for various schemes, and low household income can also lead to college grants/ money off rent.
Please feel free to dm me for more advice on Oxford specifically, or ask me general questions about languages at uni on here.

In terms of careers, my advice would be to keep an open mind. What I wanted to do when I started, and what I wanted to do at the end, were vastly different. It's worth keeping in mind that a languages degree essentially opens up all the routes of any humanities degree, plus the advantage of being able to speak the languages. People in my year went on to anything and everything, from corporate consulting (very high pressure and high pay, I'm told - not my thing!) to 3rd sector jobs to studying literature at masters level to law conversion etc etc, as well as the more obvious options of language teaching, a masters in interpreting, moving into the linguistics and speech therapy side of things.

Just reread and seen that she's doing English Literature - if she enjoys that, it's worth considering the more literature focused degrees.
In terms of tips for now, the usual stuff of keeping up with grammar and vocab, but also suggest she keeps a journal of all the brilliant extra reading and language engagement she's doing, because it will soon be time to write a personal statement and it's much easier if you're starting with a list.

Another perspective from me, as an Oxford graduate. I went to a state grammar school and I definitely felt like I didn’t fit in at Oxford - most people I met were from public or private schools - I found them intimidating and couldn’t relate to them. The friends I did make ended up all being from state grammars like me. It could have been the college I chose although this particular college does a lot of outreach work with state schools so you would have thought it might have been different. But I appreciate it could have also just been me! Everyone’s different. I certainly gained a lot from my time at university there but I can’t say hand on heart I enjoyed the 3 years.

Just out of interest, when did you graduate roughly? I think it's changed over the years. I'm not saying you're wrong though! I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.
I remember meeting the odd arse in freshers week who thought it mattered he went to public school, but they were very much in the minority so I just avoided them from then on. I didn't find them intimidating though, more annoying with a shocking lack of real-life skills. I also spent a fair amount of time interacting with the actual residents of Oxford, which meant a lot more time with "normal" people

I graduated 25 years ago 🙃 so no doubt it could have changed in that time

Haha fair, it probably has! I wasn't even born then...
I am conscious though, of not jumping down people's throat when they say they've had a bad experience. I'm sorry if I accidentally did that. I think the zeal to encourage people to apply can sometimes make us a bit defensive. There's no harm in acknowledging that it's not a perfect university for every student, or indeed that there are many other excellent universities especially for modern languages where the course can vary so much between universities.

I’d definitely encourage her to apply for Oxbridge - languages are one of the least competitive subjects so she has a much better chance than she thinks. I did languages at Oxbridge and neither of my parents had gone to university and most of my fellow students were the same, in fact one at my college had been raised by a teenage single mum - I graduated in 2017.

In terms of jobs afterwards we have a lot of people in the civil service, law, marketing, journalism, the corporate/management side of the hotels/tourism industry, recruitment and HR.

She can certainly take Italian at uni ab initio - starting from scratch. Not many schools in the UK offer it after all. Her great grades and PGs in her other MFLs show she could easily pick it up. Well done her. Amazing that she is able to take 2 x MFLs at A level too, that's sadly unusual. I hope she gets the grades she is aiming for and gives the lie to those who say it's impossible to get an A/Astar in French without being a native speaker (it isn't impossible at all btw). Your DGD sounds amazing, all the best to her.

MFL is my subject (former class teacher of it) btw in case you couldn’t tell!

Agree with others btw that you (or she) need to ask some serious questions of the unis as a number are dropping or have dropped MFL (looking at you Lboro).

Also remember that London is expensive and can be isolating; she might also want to look at Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Durham and Warwick. (caveat: I have not checked details of MFL at those unis in terms of which languages they offer).