Further Maths as third A level

[FirstDaysOfSpring]

Is this ok if you know you want to do a maths degree?

Maths
Further Maths
Physics

I very much blame the government!

I share your hopes for next year, @noblegiraffe , but I very much worry that this year pupils at schools with a Cambridge tradition will have a huge advantage.

There is still the Cambridge STEP site itself, of course, which is very good.

Ironically I was able to access solutions to past STEP papers at MEI by starting at the Cambridge site. I haven’t compared them to the Cambridge solutions yet

DS2 is doing Maths, FM and Biology. He was doing Physics but he dropped it within weeks. He hadn't wanted to do it, but didn't get a high enough GCSE in Chemistry to do at A Levels. His school agreed he could just do the 3.

He's sitting A Levels atm, predicted A A B.
He actually only got a 7 in GCSE maths (was in autistic burnout in Yr11) but has been smashing A Levels

That should be A* for both Maths and FM

@PennywisePoundFoolish
that’s brilliant- I’m so pleased it’s all worked out for your DS2. He’s doing amazingly well to be in track for those grades.

My DS1 is currently revising for maths and computer science A levels and is now really having to put the practise in! He took CTEC Engineering and that’s already in the bag now.
My DS2 is in the middle of GCSEs and so far so good he thinks.
I hope your DS2 gets his first choice of what he wants to do next year.

Thank you, he's hoping for Bath, has a conditional offer A* in Maths and FM C in biology. His insurance is Exeter - ABB.
His school did FM as well as Maths from Yr12, I seem to remember they finished one curriculum early, and just concentratd on the other for the last term of Yr12. It's a subject he's really able at, whereas Biology he enjoys but it doesn't come as easy. For him doing these 3 has worked well.

Good luck to your DC and I hope their choices all work out too

DS2 went to a specialist STEM 6th form and was only allowed to do 3 A levels. He did maths, physics and further maths. FM was taught as a full subject from year 12. I don’t understand why colleges think that what is arguably the hardest A level can be taught in half the time or tacked on. Are all examination boards equal?

He is now studying for a masters in mechanical engineering. Unis cannot specify FM as it is not always offered but he was not required to have 3 other A levels and it has definitely helped at uni as the maths was familiar and not the massive step up it was to those without FM.

He would have got less benefit from a 4th A level and UCAS points don’t really matter if you meet or exceed the requirements for your chosen course at your chosen uni which you can do with ‘just’ maths, physics and further maths.

I haven't seen a single university say they don't consider M+FM+another subject to be sufficient.

@PocketSand- I think maybe it may more be that the students taking FM are likely to find the Maths easier than many of those taking just the latter, plus there’s a bit of overlap between physics and mechanics.

LSE say that for some courses M+FM+ one other isn't great. To quote: "Programmes where a combination of A-level Maths, A-level Further Maths and one other subject may be considered less competitive"

The thing is when a course is competitive and they say "we recommend x for a competitive application" or "the majority of successful candidates had y" then you just know it's mandatory. Like at Oxford for PPE, you don't have to have maths but then it turns out that all but two successful applicants have it or something.

I'm not an admissions person or a STEM expert, but common sense would tell me that if they've got a choice of someone doing M+FM and physics and someone doing those with chemistry or history or economics or whatever as a fourth, surely the latter has some advantage? Look at the stats for engineering at a compettive university. And I suspect that if a school allows for the study of four subjects or is a high-achieving school, you'd be disadvantage in applying to some places.

Yes, LSE see maths, fm and physics as a ‘narrow’ choice which isn’t regarded favourably for some subjects. DS is doing these 3 plus Welsh Bacc and wants to study maths a university so his choices are not a problem in the least for that.

@PocketSand
It can be the hardest A-level, but honestly it depends on the person. I didn't find it hard; never really felt a step up from GCSE to A-level or from A-level to FM.
We had 8 lessons a week per A-level, but for Maths and FM together we had 12., and I was often twiddling my thumbs. We finished the Maths before Easter and FM before Christmas except for a small amount of further mechanics that they'd deliberately left to make sure we did have something to do in the sprint term.

But if I'd been doing languages, or arty, or anything essay based I would have found that far harder.

I would also say take a 4th if you are doing FM. Otherwise you are essentially just doing 2 subjects. Plus, FM is marmite - you get it or you don't. So it is either not that much more work over maths, or you struggle and are better off dropping it. I could only do 2/3 of it - the 'theoretical' maths (set theory etc) and the statistics. Luckily that was enough an A*, as I was able to cherry pick questions in the exams.

Doesn't it depend why you didn't get a 9? With the percentage needed for a 9 getting to 90% and above for some exam boards you could be great at understanding maths concepts and problem solving and get all the tricky questions and algebra right but end up with an 8 because of a few silly errors and forgetting what a box plot was!

Further to my point above. This year for AQA the grade boundaries were.

9 GCSE 91%
A star A Level maths 86%
A star further maths 80%

Obviously the a level material will be much more challenging at A Level. However I am not sure pupils with a good 8 should be excluding themselves if their conceptual understanding is strong and they just slipped up in a few places. Some people do have a slightly higher error rate than others.

Most kids who get a 7 or 8 in a subject at GCSE have a decent shot at a B or even A at A Level

Depends on what you call a decent shot.
A 9 at GCSE has approximately a 92% chance of a B or above, or 81% chance of a A or above. And approximately 2% chance of a D or below.
An 8 at GCSE has approximately a 60% chance of a B or above in maths, or 36% (approx 1 in 3) chance of an A or above. And 17% of a D or below
A 7 at GCSE has approximately 25% chance of a B or above, and 10% of an A or above. And a approximately a 50% chance of a D or below.

My ds was one of the 7s that translated into an A at Alevel. But two things here. Firstly he did not do any work whatsoever for GCSE (lazy lump!), and he put a lot of work into the last three months his A-level Maths.
If a pupil has had to work hard to get that 7, I'd be fairly certain they're going to really struggle at A-levels.