3 or 4 A levels for Maths & Computer science degree - Quandry

[vaux777]

DC wants to do a degree in Maths and computer science. Will be in year 12 this September. Has had all 9’s in Maths, computer science, Physics for GCSE.
He has taken 4 A levels Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Computer science.

Would be aiming for Imperial, Oxford, Warwick besides the other top universities. Conscious that GCSE to A levels is quite a step up. He’s now wondering whether he should drop to 3 A levels ( Maths, further maths, Physics?) and focus on getting top grades in 3 A levels rather than taking all 4.

Think he’s a bit worried if that 4th A level may pull his grades down and he loses out getting an offer at top universities on account of this. Besides, if applying to Imperial, Oxford etc he would also need to prepare for the entrance test which he would need to sit in October of yr 13. So think he’s rather worried if it would be able to manage getting the grades taking 4 A levels with all this. Say taking all 4 A levels, he ends up with say AAAB then he would not make say imperial or other top universities.

The school start with Maths in year 12 and then do further maths in year 13. Have seen that Maths and further maths is definitely needed for a Maths and Computer Science degree so he was thinking he would probably have to drop Physics / computer science.

Any thoughts? Has anyone’s child at top universities got in with only 3 A levels for doing a maths and computer science course? Also, which between physics /computer science would be better to drop, if he does decide to drop?

Thanks.

My neighbours DC did M,P and FM. Went to Exeter to do maths. FM is a third A level.

There is actually a lot of overlap between Maths & Further Maths and between Physics & Maths! In addition, if you do Further Maths then normal Maths can feel like half an A level.

Let's also not forget that our students need to compete in an increasingly global world where math & stem education is increasingly important

My dd did M, FM and P and did engineering at Cambridge...she had an EPQ and AS CS too but they didn't figure in the 5 offers from there and other unis. They most certainly do count FM as a third not merely fourth A level, as do (from the evidence I can see) all maths, physics, CS and engineering degrees.
However schools are entirely correct to make their students start with 4 A levels if one is FM (and tbh it's a shame they don't for any subject mix).

@ErrolTheDragon I just think this lad liked his maths and maths courses want students qualified in maths. 4 to start is fine but it’s not for everyone. Depends on subjects offered and breadth of DC taking the A levels. What can they realistically manage.

We need all sorts of skills to compete globally. Mathematicians haven’t taken over yet and some should be held to account.

There are other good universities than those 3. Of course he’ll get an offer somewhere decent if he gets 4 A* A levels

Totally agree, I genuinely wonder if some MN posters think unless you get a degree from Oxbridge or Imperial you’re destined to spend your life on the dole or flipping burgers. The snobbery is ridiculous.

And also agree on CS. My son has an A at advanced higher computing science so already knows a bit about what it involves, I’m surprised so many people want to do it having never studied it as a subject itself.

I did a sciences degree at Cambridge and I really really wished I’d been able to take further maths, as they “covered it over the first few weeks” to bring us all up to speed. I was so lost, and totally lost my handle at maths

God, me too. Though actually I'm not sure they even bothered to cover it in the first few weeks when I was there, just expected it to be either known or looked up (briskly, pre-Internet, while doing a 30-hours timetable plus out-of-hours work). I spent bloody ages trying to prove something that it turns out could be assumed if you 'knew your conic sections'.

Keep the Further Maths.

You could say the same about law, engineering, politics or medicine couldn't you?
Kids get some idea about what people are doing in these fields from what they read and observe. Their perceptions may or may not be entirely correct.

As an aside, please don’t fall into the trap of taking a place on an engineering course with the intent to swap to maths or computer science once you are there. It (almost) never happens.

My DS, is just going into Y13. He wants to apply to study CS at Warwick or Cambridge amongst others. He is taking Maths, FM, CS and Physics and has completed his EPQ. He was worried about the fourth A level and was planning to see how it went and maybe drop CS or Physics, knowing that Maths and FM are.the key A levels. However he has absolutely thrived doing 4, and ended up not wanting to give up any as he enjoys them all.

I think that is the key, the applicants for the so called "top" universities will devour the workload and thrive with 4. He is constantly working and studying but loves it.

Also he has been studying all the stats and figures that the unis release and knows how insanely competive CS is, but he is aware where he needs to be A levels wise to give himself a fighting chance. And seeing the stats is ensuring he is looking at other universities as well.

Lots of good CS courses available outwith COWI - Bath, Birmingham, Durham, Edinburgh, Manchester, Lancaster, Southampton etc.

Yes. And Lancaster has some in clearing!

It’s also perfectly possible to study engineering and move into a highly paid CS type job. Broader skills!

I wasn’t saying FM isn’t considered to be a whole a level or not worthy in some way - kind of the opposite actually. The 6th form colleges were saying it’s a particularly difficult a level, therefore they don’t encourage people to put all their eggs in the FM basket, as it were, as it’s one that people are more likely to drop as it’s really challenging. They all said “do three a levels and then FM on top, so if you can’t keep up and have to drop it, you aren’t left with only two”.

I genuinely wonder if some MN posters think unless you get a degree from Oxbridge or Imperial you’re destined to spend your life on the dole or flipping burgers.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

However, when looking at global rankings then Oxbridge & Imperial are the only Universities from the UK in the top 20 or so for Computer Science/Engineering.

Large employers do like to recruit from them.

@MerryMarys Larger employers might but not exclusively. Smaller employers often give more varied opportunities and an input into the business in a more meaningful way. We have many SMEs who employ talented engineers and rarely see anyone from Oxbridge or Imperial. Lots of them go and work in city finance or similar. That leaves lots of very good jobs for other great young engineers.