3 or 4 A levels for Maths & Computer science degree - Quandry

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DC wants to do a degree in Maths and computer science. Will be in year 12 this September. Has had all 9’s in Maths, computer science, Physics for GCSE.
He has taken 4 A levels Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Computer science.

Would be aiming for Imperial, Oxford, Warwick besides the other top universities. Conscious that GCSE to A levels is quite a step up. He’s now wondering whether he should drop to 3 A levels ( Maths, further maths, Physics?) and focus on getting top grades in 3 A levels rather than taking all 4.

Think he’s a bit worried if that 4th A level may pull his grades down and he loses out getting an offer at top universities on account of this. Besides, if applying to Imperial, Oxford etc he would also need to prepare for the entrance test which he would need to sit in October of yr 13. So think he’s rather worried if it would be able to manage getting the grades taking 4 A levels with all this. Say taking all 4 A levels, he ends up with say AAAB then he would not make say imperial or other top universities.

The school start with Maths in year 12 and then do further maths in year 13. Have seen that Maths and further maths is definitely needed for a Maths and Computer Science degree so he was thinking he would probably have to drop Physics / computer science.

Any thoughts? Has anyone’s child at top universities got in with only 3 A levels for doing a maths and computer science course? Also, which between physics /computer science would be better to drop, if he does decide to drop?

Thanks.

The is one of my favourite emoticons, I'm often confused.
So, imperial maths BSc...

Warwick maths BSc

My son wants to do computing and aiming for oxbridge/imperial/warwick.
He goes to a highly selective school.
He is a very able child and got 9s for all his GCSE but English lge he got 5 (he was predicted a 9 and this was a total shock)

He is going to resit but we are worried that even if he gets 4A* and good TMUA and good PS, he might not get into a good uni due to his eng lge gcse and resit

Please advice

The reference from the school can help contextualise a bad result - eg did something happen on the day of the exam, any dyslexia that isn’t severe enough for extra time.

Unfortunately no extenuating circumstances

If you are an A-star student in FM then the ordinary Maths and most of the Physics should be easy.

DS did these 3 plus Chemistry and found the Chemistry the hardest work.

@Willow2020 - it will vary between the different unis, I'm afraid you and your Ds will need to check requirements for each course he's interested in individually.

Oxford seems to place more weight on GCSEs in general than elsewhere; Cambridge stem admissions less so, and may be more appropriate for students with uneven results in non stem subjects. I think they don't have any specific requirements if you're from an anglophone country and can manage the interview sufficiently well but not sure.
Imperial otoh appears to have a requirement of a grade 6 English language.

If you are an A-star student in FM then the ordinary Maths and most of the Physics should be easy.

This!

And in that case you should be able to manage a fourth A level fairly easily, even an unrelated one.

My dc at Imperial has friends there that took 5 A levels as well as lots of international friends that have very strong Maths skills.

I would focus less on 'getting in' one of these top Universities, but rather on thriving once there!

Yes - someone who is uncomfortable with the idea of the workload of more than 4 A levels and/or in some cases the difficulty of FM may do better on one of the many other very good courses available in U.K. universities. And hopefully it goes without saying that students should be looking at these too and not using all of their 5 ucas slots on the (perceived) 'top courses'.

For CS, Warwick say they don’t consider a 4th A level. Also they want a strong set of GCSEs. So they look at them. It’s vital to look at every course info and not guess.

Yep. And please don't rely on anything on mn - however well meant, sometimes info is outdated or in some other way inaccurate so double-check the uni websites, students can email admissions tutors if those aren't clear.

This, definitely. DS is at a top uni doing engineering, he did maths, FM, comp sci and physics. He was predicted 4 A stars and got them. At his uni they pretty much expect you to have done further maths for engineering and I'm pretty sure it's the same for comp sci. It would be seriously frowned on if you applied from a school or college that offered it but you'd chosen not to take it. They would question why. Be aware for top unis even if you have 4 A stars, you're not guaranteed a place for comp sci, though. It is insanely popular and not all can let everyone in.

Incidentally, DS's friend chose not to take further maths when he went into Year 12. However, when he looked into the unis he was thinking of, also for engineering, his chances were definitely going to increase with further maths. So he ended up picking it up late in the end, I think. It might have even been very late, as in having to do it with the year below or something like that and working extra hard to catch up.

Your DS can aways decide to drop FM if finds it all too demanding. It's harder to catch up later. My DS and his friends who did FM actually said that it helped to be doing a LOT of maths all the time, because physics is all maths, and of course doing FM meant you're pretty much guaranteed to find the normal maths easier. I mean, you have to love maths, I guess. I did A-level maths because I got an A in GCSE and I quite liked it, and my others were language subjects so I thought it would be a nice contrast. But I wasn't a natural mathematician, something which I realised too late into 6th form when others were gliding along and I was struggling once we got to Spring of Year 12. It is a BIG step up from GCSE to A-level.

Definitely keep the further maths.

Often even top universities only offer on three, so you can afford for the fourth to slip.

Keeping all 4 is likely to make the first year of university perhaps less stressful - those subjects all feed into one another.
Dropping one makes 6th form an easier ride - but is it worth it if you are playing catch up later?
4 A levels is arguably better prep for an intense degree course at a very highly competitive university.

I would at least start with four and see how it goes.

I suspect you will find some good threads on Student room where this is debated. If your DS takes four you could not do an EPQ if school does these or alternatively do 3 a levels and a computer science related EPQ.

Maybe worth searching previous FOI requests on CS applications to the universities you’re considering.

Warwick, for example, had over 3000 applications for its BSc / MEng courses in the 2023 cycle, with 216 places on the courses.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/computer_science_9/response/2425851/attach/html/3/Freedom%20of%20Information%20Request%20University%20of%20Warwick%20F571.22%2023.pdf.html

Agree with most of that, but for Often even top universities only offer on three, so you can afford for the fourth to slip.

I think it'd be more accurate to say all universities do make offers on 3, but a few (maybe only Cambridge STEM and imperial) will offer on 4 if you apply with 4. So, in those cases if you want to let one slide you need to drop it before applying. That's the gamble - your application may then be less attractive but if you get an offer it's more achievable

Anyone reading all of this would think there was a choice of 4 unis in this country and going annywhere else is a failure! Its ludicrous. Anyone doing Stem at a RG or similar uni is clearly capable of applying for good jobs. They might even have more to offer in other ways. A DS I know did maths at Exeter. Must be a totally useless dc! Except he’s not. All the headlong rush into CS seems lemming like too. There are other courses that can be very fulfilling too!

I did a sciences degree at Cambridge and I really really wished I’d been able to take further maths, as they “covered it over the first few weeks” to bring us all up to speed. I was so lost, and totally lost my handle at maths.

If you’re applying for courses where most people will have done FM, they will teach with this assumption I think. So keep it if you can do well in it.

Also, none of the 6th form colleges we looked round would let someone choose maths, FM and one other thing. FM always had to be a 4th a level, as it often gets dropped. That might well vary depending on the school but it was common across the 5 we looked at.

Also, none of the 6th form colleges we looked round would let someone choose maths, FM and one other thing. FM always had to be a 4th a level

Our experience too.

It makes sense as Maths & Further Maths is really just one subject, Maths!

Our school teaches Maths in yr12 and FM in year 13 so it doesn't even add to the timetable!

Same at my DC’s school - FM must be the fourth of four a levels

At the school I teach at it also has to be a fourth A-level and I personally agree with this.

My neighbours DC did M,P and FM. Went to Exeter to do maths. FM is a third A level. It might surprise people to know that lesser unis take 3 A levels and FM is counted as a whole A level. As indeed it is at lots of unis. Only at the elite ones is 4 A levels normal in stem subjects. Drop down a level and 3, including FM is acceptable. Has anyone actually looked at the unis with maths in clearing? Loads of RG and Loughborough. Surrey etc. You don’t need 4 A levels.

Some such as York Glasgow and Loughborough even have maths/cs available. Just choose one of these and with M and Fm and one other suitable A level and you are in.

Most high end computer science undergrad degrees require you to already be able to code. You don’t need an A Level in Comp Sci for that (and it’s better if you don’t actually as they’re shit). But he should probably begin to start coding in Python and build a portfolio,