Girls Taking Further Maths A Level

[Charlysunnysky]

My daughter is keen to study Further Maths alongside Maths at A level – she is also planning to take Physics and Chemistry, as she is hoping to secure an engineering apprenticeship and if not, go into the armed forces to qualify as a dentist.

She’s been learning in the girl’s division of a school, but FM is delivered in the boys division, in a mixed class. Last year, the class of 16 pupils was 14 boys and 2 girls. 9 of the boys got A or A*, the rest got B’s and C’s. The 2 girls - one got a C and one an E.

I’ve asked school for the 2024 FM class breakdown & results when they’re out today. Hopefully they’ll be better for the girls division – it could be just 2 female students that achieved their potential and were never going to get top grades in that particular subject.

But I’m concerned that rather than raising the standard to motivate the girls to do even better, the boys are overshadowing the girls, and they’re underperforming because the boys are dominating. The rest of the STEAM subjects are taught separately and the girls excel without the boys.

What are your experiences of FM at A level? My feeling is that she will be taking it anyway, and hopefully be spurred on, not demotivated by the far greater proportion of boys. There is not enough uptake in girls division to teach it separately and perhaps that wouldn’t help anyway. I’m just interested to know what other think.

I think it is interesting you have a co ed school that separates boys and girls for STEM subjects.

(I did FM at an all girls independent and then maths degree - large majority boys)

If you wanted her to be in a girls only class, there are perhaps girls’ schools she could transfer to, where she would only be taught with boys.

Despite girls doing better than boys generally at A-levels, boys do better at maths and further maths, but nobody can really agree the reasons for these differences (which in fact persist across the globe).

if she likes maths she should do further maths, but it is tough!!

I did Further Maths A level but at an all girl school. I didn't like Maths that much and felt flattered at the suggestion I could do it.

Absolutely hated it, worked very hard and got a C.

So I'd be asking a lot of questions about how much she really really likes Maths and a realistic grade prediction. As it is a lot of long boring hours if you don't love it.

Is the data for previous years available? 2 isn't a statistically meaningful sample to know if there's a systematic problem at this school.

Fwiw when I was doing a levels in a coed schools I was one of only 2 girls doing double maths, the only one doing physics, the only one in my chemistry set ... we did better than all the boys. Maybe back then girls only did those subjects at all if they were very good and very keen on them... on the basis of this nonstatistical sample, boys dominating isn't necessarily the case.

Otoh my daughter went to a girls grammar school- maths was the most taken A level, and the FM class had over 20 in it. They got a spread of results including top grades. She did engineering at Cambridge and is now an electronics engineer - a field with about the worst sex imbalance.

I rather suspect that your dd will need the character and resolve to not let boys dominate! That may apply during A levels if there isn't a suitable single sex school, but is very likely to also be the case in her future career choices.

Also, it's generally reckoned not advisable to do FM unless the maths gcse grade is 8 or 9 - will this be the case for your dd?

@pythag Thanks. I wouldn't want to transfer her at this stage as she loves her school and I think it would disrupt her progress to leave for a new school she doesn't want to attend. It's too late to apply now in any case as she starts Y13 in September.
It's an interesting one, about boys statistically outperforming girls at Maths. She does have a maths brain though - it's her favourite subject as she enjoys problem solving and the logical process. Maths is the only subject she was certain she'd continue to study.

all 3 of ours (2 boys, 1 girl) did Maths at A level. Can recommend things like Khan Academy online (free) as a very good resource.

@TeenToTwenties Thank you. It's not really a Co Ed. It's one school that has a Boys Division and a Girls Division for primary, secondary and sixth form. But it seems they mix for for lower class numbers at A level like Engineering.

Did you do something maths related with your maths degree?

@ErrolTheDragon Very helpful, that. Yes, her mock grades were 9's for all the subjects she has asked to take at A level. We will se what next Thu brings!

Agree that one set of results isn't a good indicator. I can't find anything for previous years online though I could ask the school.

It concerns me that school have emphasised that FM is only to be taken by those who excel in Maths and I'd imagine the 2 girls who took it it last year and came out with a C and E were doing well in maths - not very encouraging.

Well done to you and your daughter. I love seeing girls excel in STEAM subjects and careers - it makes if so much more possible to level up the imbalance.

@AnnaMagnani You did so well to achieve that, and it says so much about your determination and work ethic. It could be that the 2 girls who took it last year were in a similar position.

Yes, she definitely loves maths and while she got 9's in her mocks we will see what results day brings next week.

A lot of students do find the jump to A level hard, especially in the stem subjects and particularly FM. And of course many doing the latter will do 4 subjects - well, it's absolutely a good idea to start with 4 in case one doesn't work out but the workload may take its toll.
DD was pre-reform, so she was able to drop her 4th subject (CS) after AS , on the advice of her school to maximize chance of top grades. (She did an EPQ as well but she did most of the work for that in the summer hols).

I was one of only 2 girls when I took further maths years ago. I was top in the class, my friend unfortunately came out bottom. It's a tough subject. You have to following everything, there's no time to double back so you have to ask every time you don't follow, even if you look stupid, and it took me twice the work outside class as any other a-level. My friend wasn't organised enough to find time for the extra hours and had too much else going on. I can see that a quiet kid would fall behind very easily, so being the only girl would be harder because she's more likely to be the quiet kid. It's brilliant prep for doing STEM at university though, because you're already used to the pace and having to do the leg work.

@ErrolTheDragon Thank you. The plan is to abandon one if it's too much but hopefully keep up sufficiently to take an A/S in it at the end of Y12. They must be able to teach the syllabus in a way that's conducive to this, as it's not available at the other sixth forms we visited.

@StamppotAndGravy Good advice and yes I agree. I think it will haver been tough for those 2 girls in a class of 14 boys for the first time in 13 years of education to say 'I don't get that' You'd almost need to be the extrovert. I found in Economics if I didn't ask the question immediately in the exact moment, any explanation at the end of the class was meaningless.

How can she be starting Y13 in September if she hasn't chosen her A Levels yet and is getting her GCSE results next Thursday? Surely you mean Y12?

Also, are you in England/is she at an Independent School? Never heard of separate boys' and girls' divisions in a school before or anyone calling STEM STEAM!

Bear in mind that the two girls who did the A level last year would have had school assessed GCSEs rather than the regular ones due to covid and possibly had inflated GCSE grades

I know schools like this, same site but independently run schools. Makes for a greater available choice when it comes to A level

@Meredusoleil Sorry yes, I mean Y13! Thanks for pointing out - could have caused all kinds of confusion!

@Meredusoleil Yes it's an independent and the girls/boys/primary/secondary/sixth form divisions are run as separate schools but under one 'foundation' on the same site. STEAM includes the arts, to creatively underpin STEM concepts but I've noticed the term is used more often in the US, and with younger age groups. STEM is perhaps more appropriate in this case.

@Svalberg Yes, that's true. And possibly a contributing factor that won't be present in this years cohort - thank you.

I mean Y12!!! 😂Arghhh!!

The school my dd would probably have gone to if she'd not got a place at the girls' grammar had girls' and boys' divisions on the same site - I think it's a good system.
STEAM can be quite a helpful concept I think. There's still too much of the 'two cultures' - the U.K. narrow A level system doesn't help that.

STEAM is the more up to date term…it includes ‘arts’ which kinda defeats the whole thing of what STEM is but hey ho.

STEAM is the more up to date term…it includes ‘arts’ which kinda defeats the whole thing of what STEM is but hey ho.

Well, not exactly. I think it may be a helpful approach to help break down the 'two cultures', some aspects of 'gendered choices', and the ludicrous idea some people seem to have that 'creativity' is purely the domain of 'arts types' not 'STEM types'.

I just found this article which I thought was quite interesting

theconversation.com/explainer-whats-the-difference-between-stem-and-steam-95713

@BlueEyedLeucy I felt the same way. But so many concepts are demonstrated using creative projects, like the deflating balloon attached to a model car to show kinetic energy, I suppose it makes what could be perceived as boring/difficult & technical more accessible and inclusive.