Girls Taking Further Maths A Level

[Charlysunnysky]

My daughter is keen to study Further Maths alongside Maths at A level – she is also planning to take Physics and Chemistry, as she is hoping to secure an engineering apprenticeship and if not, go into the armed forces to qualify as a dentist.

She’s been learning in the girl’s division of a school, but FM is delivered in the boys division, in a mixed class. Last year, the class of 16 pupils was 14 boys and 2 girls. 9 of the boys got A or A*, the rest got B’s and C’s. The 2 girls - one got a C and one an E.

I’ve asked school for the 2024 FM class breakdown & results when they’re out today. Hopefully they’ll be better for the girls division – it could be just 2 female students that achieved their potential and were never going to get top grades in that particular subject.

But I’m concerned that rather than raising the standard to motivate the girls to do even better, the boys are overshadowing the girls, and they’re underperforming because the boys are dominating. The rest of the STEAM subjects are taught separately and the girls excel without the boys.

What are your experiences of FM at A level? My feeling is that she will be taking it anyway, and hopefully be spurred on, not demotivated by the far greater proportion of boys. There is not enough uptake in girls division to teach it separately and perhaps that wouldn’t help anyway. I’m just interested to know what other think.

I didn't do further maths but did go on to a maths degree and further maths would have opened up more opportunities for which universities I could apply to. If you 'get' maths then you get it but I do think earlier replies make a good point about feeling confident asking questions if there is an imbalance in the class. Anecdotal of course but if there were more boys than girls in my A level maths class or uni course, I didn't notice!

I had a dd who did FM as well as 2 sons.The majority in all their class were boys and a lot of thr girls dropped it after AS.

@mm81736 Maths is her favourite subject but it's an option, taking an A/S and dropping it after Y12.

@Sewsew0 I agree that if you 'get' maths, you 'get' it and probably what you believe about your strengths in a subject can affect how you perform. She says she will not be intimidated and silenced from fear of looking silly but other than the engineering workshops she's been on, this will be the first mixed class since primary school so she can't know for sure she will feel confident and speak freely, which will be essential to ensure she understands everything in each class.

This is an interesting anecdote. I did Maths A Level, was very Mathsy but didn’t do FM.

Despite getting full marks on some maths modules, I ended up getting a D on my last maths module (still got an overall A). I did a Maths degree and hated most of it - If I’d done FM I’d have never done a maths degree. Turns out I hate applied maths/mechanics and complex numbers etc, but love discrete/decision/core maths.

I ended up with 2:1 after a very very hard slog. I’ve never really considered the gender point around applied maths though…

I was the only girl when I did it, but it was a small class. I don't recall any problems with the boys, it was a subject that required concentration and focus. I didn't work tremendously hard at it and got a C. I'm glad I didn't let it go entirely though; due to illness, I had to drop an A-Level that I couldn't get the significant coursework element finished, so FM became my 3rd.

If I recall correctly, typically 30-40% of uni maths courses comprise female students, including the most competitive ones - so not 50:50, but getting there bit by bit, if we keep up the encouragement.

I have DD and DS who have taken FM at a comp. In the case of DD, around 1 in 4 were female students. My DC were not top set maths in the run up to GCSE but were glad they took FM and it stretched them in a positive way and they came away with good grades.

My DD started FM towards the bottom of the class. However, her mindset was she was just as entitled to be there as others (whether male or female). Yes, she experienced mixed-sex classes throughout her schooling, but that was not the defining aspect but rather cultivation of an inner self-confidence and willingness to push on.

She realised she needed to be more vocal (as in volunteering to suggest solutions out loud) and did this despite being naturally quiet. So it is important, I think, to steer well clear of anything that might encourage self-limiting behaviour (eg 'the boys might crowd out'; 'girls tend to drop FM').

Long time ago but I think there were three of us girls in our FM AS Level class at a mixed sixth form. About 7 boys. I think everyone got As or Bs. I remember there was one boy clearly more able then the rest of us and he, of course, got an A. The (male) teacher made constant comments about the size of one of the girl's breasts 🤮. She also managed to get an A and got off with him at the end of college Prom. Anyway, my point is everybody got the results I would have predicted at the start of the year regardless of what a dick the teacher was.

I did further maths A level. (State comp.) There were 6 boys and 2 girls. Both girls got As. The boys got 3As, 2Bs and a C. The boys did not dominate. If anything me and the other girl dominated. The further maths group was a close knit group though as we obviously all did maths and further maths together and then most of us were also doing physics as well with chemistry and economics being the fairly equal other choice so we would all go from one lesson to another together.

My DD started FM A Level at college last September. At the start of the year there were four girls in the class, then two dropped out. DD decided has not to continue with it in Y13. She was predicted an A but decided she’s not applying for a STEM degree, so it's a bit of an unnecessary drain on her time.

Although DD was used to a mixed comprehensive school, she did find being in a heavily male-dominated environment difficult, with the boys often not listening to the girls. She also struggled a little with some of the prior knowledge assumed in mechanics problems – for example some of the terminology to describe bits of a car or other machinery – and found that by and large the boys didn’t.

Because further maths is so intense and the pace is so quick, your DD will likely become fairly good friends with the others in her class (both boys and girls) as they will be seeing each other all the time. The atmosphere can be fairly supportive. She will end up having to get used to the stupid and immature jokes that 16 and 17 year old boys will make, but equally she will no don’t end up smiling wryly from time to time as some of them will actually be funny and fun things do happen in lessons.

DD did further maths at a large state 6th form college, mixed class. I think the 1st year was hard work, but she hit her stride in yr2. Did well.

There may have been more boys than girls in the class but DD never mentioned this. Both teachers were female.

Sounds an odd set up with respect to the boys school.

I’ve never really considered the gender point around applied maths though…

Is there one? Back in the day, my 'double maths' A levels were Pure and Applied. I liked them both and did somewhat better in the latter.
My dd taught herself an extra mechanics module and did extremely well in it.

Re the confidence and speaking up in mixed groups...it can probably go either way. Some girls will be more confident for having previously always been the 'default sex'. Some girls won't be let boys dominate.

There is a gendered point around education. Girls get better GCSEs and A-levels than boys, but in maths boys do better (by a small but significant amount). The number of boys taking maths is larger than the number of girls taking maths (by a significant amount). Whether these facts concern us or not is a different question.

Dd has just received her results with a star in both maths and further maths. At her school they cover the a level maths syllabus in the first two terms of year 12 and then start further maths. She found pure maths quite straightforward, but had to put quite a lot of work into mechanics. Her maths teacher for mechanics was an ex engineer which helped. Not intimidated by any boys as she attended a girls’ school.

DD nearly didn't take FM but is so glad she did. She is the only girl doing it but that's been fine. She has always been very strong at maths and finds 'normal' maths a-level straightforward (so far). FM has seen my DD actually have to really work for the first time and she loves it. And will hopefully do Maths at uni. It does mean she's going 4 A-levels (also doing physics and biology) and that's been very tough at times though the physics is quite complementary. It's all just maths, maths and more maths!

I would just encourage your DD to take FM definitely. My DDs have sat it and both achieved A star. To achieve that they practised questions solid for two years. Practice, practice some more, and do it all over again. And then do it some more. Good luck!

In 2024 there were 4,640 girls in England who did further maths (this is a record). There were 12,500 boys who did further maths (this is also a record). If anything, the gap is growing.

of the girls, 26.1% got an A. Of the boys, 29.3% got an A. On this measure, the boys continued to do slightly better.

There's some research that suggests that girls require a deeper level understanding before they feel confident with a maths topic compared with boys. So the boys may seem really whizzy and confident but don't necessarily understand it any better than the girls.
This was certainly the case with me, only girl in a FM class of about 10. The boys were all loud show offs, calling out and racing ahead. I came top of the class.
My advice to your daughter is keep on top of it. With my other A levels I found I could not do much during term time, then cram before the exams. But this absolutely did not work for FM. Do the homework every week carefully and talk to the teacher if anything is confusing. I loved FM, something so pleasurable about a whole page (or more!) of 'workings' to find a solution. And it put me in such a strong position for my science degree, compared to peers who didn't do FM and found it hard to get their heads round degree's maths content.

Thank you so much for your experiences and advice - this is so valuable, and I've passed it on to my daughter. Happily she says that there are at least 2 other girls taking it in September. They are both very studious and high-achieving, and my daughter says they are comfortable volunteering answers and just as importantly, letting the teacher know if they don't fully understand. This is encouraging, and my daughter said she has no problem speaking up in class. I guess we will see.

Good, sounds like they should be fine.